Would Jesus have suported the Death Penalty

[Switch]

What you say has some truth in it, at least about the civil gov't being a fill-in for God's judgement:

13 Therefore submit yoursleves to every ordinance (institution) of man for the Lord's sake, whether to the king as supreme,
14 or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good.
15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men-
16 as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice (wickedness), but as bondservants of God.
17 Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.
1 Peter 2:13-17 NKJV

[JCG]

I sort of agree with Lincoln...
We as individuals should not even think of applying the death penalty to anyone by our own hands...personally we should all absolutely reject it, in theory.

However, if a government executes someone after a fair trial and treatment, we should accept it as a way of enforcing established law...but a horrible one at that.

The truth is, this is often not exactly case these days, as many people have suffered the death penalty under suspicious or at least dubious circumstances, not being given a fair chance at defending themselves, foreigners executed in disregard of treaties, lack of access to DNA proof, etc...

Therefore, in my opinion we should still try to remove this penalty in our states/countries, if we so desire, even if the Bible isn't directly opposed to it in the legal context...

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin
Another DL, how original.


Sloww, I agree to disagree, as obviously no-one is going to have any greater insight into the possibilities than anyone else. The way you view death is probably a reflection of how you view life. Its a reflection of how you see your place in existance and how your moral code works. That's my view at any rate.

BTW, I do see what you are saying about "holding patterns" but I am coming from a completely different viewpiont. I don't believe time is an issue after you die for example, so "purgatory" is not about hanging around just to change your mind. Its more about another journey that you make.

But who really knows, I sure don't. Until our creator says "Come in #12,678,465,924 your time is up" we won't.

You're probably right on all points, Dolphin.

All,
In regard to "turning the other cheek", I've made the statement before; it's not addressed how one should react when the other cheek gets slapped spitless.
Also, Jesus Christ was NOT some meek little fellow who merely went around performing miracles.
He had some "kick some ass" moments of his own.

[Switch]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Also, Jesus Christ was NOT some meek little fellow who merely went around performing miracles.
He had some "kick some ass" moments of his own.

Hehe, kinda like when he kicked all of those merchants out of the temple. That was cool

[Alexander's Horse]

I'd like to know what Jesus thinks about parking inspectors.

[chequita guevara]

I find it interesting that some Christians seek to wash their hands of the Death Penalty like modern Pilots.

[mactbone]

OK, so - if one Christian nation declared war on another - is that murder?

What about, drunk driving and hitting a car killing someone - it could be considered murder because you made the decision to drive while drunk, but while driving you would not have made a point of hitting that car?

Hmm, what about being on a jury that hands out a death sentence, is that murder - or is the only murderer/killer the guy that flips the switch/fires the gun (for you Texans )/or injects the lethal dose?

Is gross negligence murder?

Is euthanasia murder?

See, if we can't define murder, there isn't much point going on about this.

BTW, lately I've heard many Christians telling me that Hell's not really that fiery place, it's just the absence of God which is supposed to be really not good. So, what about an Athiest? They shouldn't be in the presence of God, I mean they don't believe in any including the Almighty Thor. So, is this their hell?

Personally, I think I'm going to try and bring back the Norse Gods, I'd really like to check out Valhalla - especially if Val Hallen shows up.

[loinburger]

Originally posted by MacTBone
See, if we can't define murder, there isn't much point going on about this.

1. Murder is a well-defined term: it means unjustified/unlawful killing.

2. The question here is not whether the DP is morally justified. The question is What Would Jesus Do.

[ckweb]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
In regard to "turning the other cheek", I've made the statement before; it's not addressed how one should react when the other cheek gets slapped spitless.

FYI all: "Turning the Other Cheek" could easily have been a form of non-violent defiance in Jesus's day. Normally a superior (i.e. Roman) would hit a person he regarded inferior (i.e. non-Roman, esp. Jew) with the back of his/her right hand. By turning the other cheek, the person hit challenges his abuser to hit him/her the only other way they can: with their open, right hand, which is a sign of equality. (BTW, hitting with the left hand was taboo). (Think of the open hand hit almost like the more current idea of demanding a dual.)

On the question of the DP . . . this is Gov't jurisdiction and it is the perogative of the state to wield the sword both in war and in punishment (at least according to Paul). As for Jesus, I think the DP would be viewed by him much as he viewed divorce: a necessary but lamentable way to address the evil/imperfection of the world.

[monkspider]

The DP is nowhere *near* as necesarry as divorce. To simply acquiesce the sinful DP as being an "unfortunate necessity" is a very poor christian attitude to have. It is a Christian's duty to oppose any sins, regardless of how powerful and ingrained in our culture they may be.

[November Adam]

I'm not sure the comparison is equatable to divorce though. As divorce was a last resort sort of issue. Where as the DP is never required when incarcaration is available. Especially in that the longer a person lives the more time they have to coming to God.

[DinoDoc]

I'd like to see the people who say that Jesus wouldn't approve of the DP provide me with an explination of how they get around the fact that Jesus never said anything about it.

[Switch]

Exactly as Nov. Adam said, if we don't kill them, then we have more time to bring them to Christ. By sentencing someone to death (who isn't a Christian), we are pretty much condeming them to eternal damnation in Hell (which is a very real and scary place. I forget the passages, but they give a DETAILED description of it). I'd rather bless them, or at least have the chance to bless them, with an eternity with Christ. Wouldn't you?

[Adalbertus]

DinoDoc,
Jesus said at some point "Don't judge". I think this makes any discussion about DP after a trial unnecessary, which would leave as the only possibility a DP without trial ...
Certainly, Jesus didn't comment about any punishment without trial, but he maybe wasn't aware about sick morons who switch off their good common sense only to prove/disprove religious terms. (Hammurabi established the right to get a trial according to laws around 1700 BC -- and he probably wasn't the first one to do so --, and it became common sense by the time of Jesus).

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Adalbertus
Certainly, Jesus didn't comment about any punishment without trial, but he maybe wasn't aware about sick morons who switch off their good common sense only to prove/disprove religious terms.

This whole discussion is moot if we accept this premise.