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  • #46
    Che, I assume from your posts that you are in favor of a strong UN resolution that tells Saddam: any time, any place with no advanced warning - or else.
    http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

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    • #47
      Ned: Che takes the most recent view of Scott Ritter that Iraq doesn't have any NBC weapons.
      I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
      For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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      • #48
        let me pick out a few things i found interesting.



        3.Saddam uses patronage and violence to motivate his supporters and to control or
        eliminate opposition.Potential rewards include social status,money and better
        access to goods.Saddam fs extensive security apparatus and Ba fath Party
        network provides oversight of Iraqi society,with informants in social,
        government and military organisations.Saddam practises torture,execution andother forms of coercion against his enemies,real or suspected.His targets are
        not only those who have offended him,but also their families,friends or colleagues.

        Saddam acts to ensure that there are no other centres of power in Iraq.He has
        crushed parties and ethnic groups,such as the communists and the Kurds,which
        might try to assert themselves.Members of the opposition abroad have been the
        targets of assassination attempts conducted by Iraqi security services.

        Saddam has pursued a long-term programme of persecution of the Iraqi Kurds,
        including through the use of chemical weapons.
        1987-88,al-Majid led the gAnfal h campaign of attacks on Kurdish villages..
        Amnesty International estimates that more than 100,000 Kurds were killed or
        disappeared during this period.
        Repression and control:some examples
        œA campaign of mass arrests and killing of Shia activists led to the
        execution of the Ayatollah Baqir al-Sadr and his sister in April 1980.
        œIn 1983 80 members of another leading Shia family were arrested.Six of
        them,all religious leaders,were executed.
        œA massive chemical weapons attack on Kurds in Halabja town in March
        1988 killing 5000 and injuring 10,000 more.
        œA large number of officers from the Jabbur tribe were executed in the
        early 1990s for the alleged disloyalty of a few of them.
        After the Gulf War in 1991 Kurds in the north of Iraq rose up against Baghdad fs
        rule.In response the Iraqi regime killed or imprisoned thousands,prompting a
        humanitarian crisis.Over a million Kurds fled into the mountains and tried to
        escape Iraq.
        8.Persecution of Iraq fs Kurds continues,although the protection provided by the
        northern No-Fly Zone has helped to curb the worst excesses.But outside this
        zone the Baghdad regime has continued a policy of persecution and
        intimidation.
        9.The regime has used chemical weapons against the Kurds,most notably in an
        attack on the town of Halabja in 1988 (see Part 1 Chapter 2 paragraph 9).The
        implicit threat of the use of chemical weapons against the Kurds and others is an
        important part of Saddam fs attempt to keep the civilian population under control.


        Some 40 of Saddam fs relatives,including women and children,have been killed.
        His sons-in-law Hussein and Saddam Kamil had defected in 1995 and returned
        to Iraq from Jordan after the Iraqi government had announced amnesties for
        them.They were executed in February 1996.
        "If you obey all the rules, you miss all the fun." -Katherine Hepburn

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        • #49
          Originally posted by DinoDoc
          Ned: Che takes the most recent view of Scott Ritter that Iraq doesn't have any NBC weapons.
          Until proven otherwise, yes. I am strongly in favor of the return of inspectors, because I do not doubt that Hussein has been trying to rebuild his WoMD. But trying and succeeding are two different things.

          Frankly, however, all the rhetoric that has been used against Hussein could be equally applied to both Israel and Pakistan. Both countries have WoMD. Both countries are agressive and have attacked their neighbors. Both countries sponsor terrorism.

          The so-called policy of Bush's isn't a policy, it's simply a set of excuses to attack Iraq that will not be applied to other, more dangerous, countries.

          Remember, the editor-in-chief of Janes said there's nothing in Blair's dossier that says that Iraq is an immediate threat.
          Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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          • #50
            So the Jane's editor has more credibility to you than Blair?

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            • #51
              If Iraq is hobbled, who will counter Iran?
              Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

              Comment


              • #52
                I'm always suprised to see a commie use realism.
                I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                Comment


                • #53
                  Che, you raise a very good point. Iran is a concern for me too.

                  I have been thinking and I was wondering what in the world would happen if Iran invaded Iraq now. How does their military stack up with Iraq. Since you think so highly of Jane's military intelligence services you probably know more about that than Tony Blair.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by chegitz guevara


                    Until proven otherwise, yes. I am strongly in favor of the return of inspectors, because I do not doubt that Hussein has been trying to rebuild his WoMD. But trying and succeeding are two different things.
                    Do you favor inspections that will work?
                    http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

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                    • #55
                      ANd what would be their reason for invading Iraq? They've been rather vocal in opposing our going in, how would they justify theirs?
                      I might as well just save you all the trouble... Ming is a bastard, Ming es un bastardo, Ming est un bâtard, Ming è un bastardo, Mingus bastardus est, Ming ist ein Mistkerl, Ming jest bêkartem, Ming är en horunge, Ming korcs, O Ming ine bastarthos, Ming on rakastajani...
                      and if you don't understand any of these... Ming. Bastard is he. yesssss.

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                      • #56
                        Iran could simply say they are invading Iraq to remove the agressor Saddam and forestall an American invasion.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by jimmytrick
                          So the Jane's editor has more credibility to you than Blair?
                          Yes. Blair is a political animal. He is trying to spin. Jane's has a reputation for being rather devoted to accuracy. If the Jane's editor said otherwise, I'd have to seriously reconsider my stance on Iraq. Remember, the editor said this today in repsonse to Blair's dossier. So if Blair can't convince the people who are among the best military analysts in the world, I think that there's more smoke than fire.
                          Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by jimmytrick
                            Che, you raise a very good point. Iran is a concern for me too.

                            I have been thinking and I was wondering what in the world would happen if Iran invaded Iraq now. How does their military stack up with Iraq.
                            Iraq's military is reputed to be 1/4 the size it was during the first Bush-Hussein War. Iran could probably take them out with a good push.

                            That would be brilliant. How could Bush oppose it politically, since he himself is trying to do the very same thing?
                            Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              I don't think that anyone has said that Iraq is an immdeiate threat. Hence the emphasis on pre-emption.

                              PS What is Jane's relationship to the flight sims that bear thier name? Is it merely lending thier name or do they have actual input in thier development?
                              I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                              For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Ned
                                Do you favor inspections that will work?
                                Yes. The sooner their job is done the sooner that blockade of Iraq can end. People forget, my side isn't with Huseein or against American necessarily. My side is with the innocent people of Iraq who are pawns of an evil dicator and a callous superpower.
                                Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

                                Comment

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