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  • #91
    Originally posted by Rasbelin
    Since mid 90's nVidia hasn't always provided good quality in 2D image quality.
    Nvidia has never provided 2D image quality.
    The thing a lot of people don't get is Nvidia doesn't make boards, just the chip. It's up to the board vendors to put good components on the board for good output, and many board vendors do that. The el-cheapo Nvidia boards by people like MSI tend to have poor 2D quality, relative to ATI. The reason for that is ATI has (until recently) full control over what components are used, since they made the boards.
    "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
    Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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    • #92
      Originally posted by Eroberer

      Don't let anything regarding 2D performance enter into your choice or you'll just be making a feel-good purchase.
      That's my opinion too, but when it comes to picture quality in 2D modes, paying attention to it is worthy.
      "Kids, don't listen to uncle Solver unless you want your parents to spank you." - Solver

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      • #93
        Originally posted by Asher

        Nvidia has never provided 2D image quality.
        Actually that's true. My mistake. Let's put it this way: nVidia powered accelerators haven't and still don't always provide good 2D image quality, so you'd better be cautious too.
        "Kids, don't listen to uncle Solver unless you want your parents to spank you." - Solver

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        • #94
          I would actually say the 2D output quality on my ELSA GeForce 3 is better than my Radeon 64MB DDR VIVO, especially with digital vibrance control on low.

          ATI's image quality isn't a sure thing anymore, since you can buy non-ATI boards with ATI chips. If you get an ATI made board you can be pretty sure of the quality, likewise with a Leadtek or ELSA (I think they went under?) Nvidia board.
          "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
          Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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          • #95
            That might be the case, as I already stated that ELSA's GF3 cards have the best 2D image quality when it comes to nVidia GPU based cards. Actually the original Radeon was the first ATI card to get quite close to the level of Matrox Millenium G550, but the Radeon 7500 and 8500 did it better. If the importer of ELSA would have been shipping ELSA cards last spring, I bet I would have a Radeon 8500 card and a GF3 Ti card. Unfortunately the Finnish importer seems to have periods when they don't get ELSA cards here.
            "Kids, don't listen to uncle Solver unless you want your parents to spank you." - Solver

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            • #96
              ATi does rely on pricing to get it by. The Radeon 9700 is currently the 3D king, it's also the most expensive card out there right now, too. It remains to be seen which of the top 3D card brass will have the best price/performance ratio, but this should be the only thing considered. You led Pekka to say that he'd get a good 3D card, then a Matrox Parhelia in a couple months, which is just kind of funny. Don't do that to him! It's like me waiting on support for my old Rendition Verite chipset.

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              • #97
                The Nvidia CEO said NV30 will be the largest product launch in Nvidia's history, with a chip for every market segment. Something like 10 chip variations will be announced (supposedly at Comdex in November). I'm sure one of them will be an exceptionally good deal, like the GF4 Ti4200 was.
                "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                Comment

                • #98
                  Originally posted by Eroberer

                  You led Pekka to say that he'd get a good 3D card, then a Matrox Parhelia in a couple months, which is just kind of funny. Don't do that to him!
                  Pardon me, but I guess you have misinterpeted me. I only said this about the Parhelia.

                  Matrox - always the same excellent picture quality.

                  Matrox has been outside the gaming market for years now, but their latest attempt, Parhelia-512, is actually a very promising one. I don't cover it now, but I do recommend the review in MikroBitti 8/02 (pages 84-85), the Matrox website and the reviews on Neoseeker, AnandTech and Tom's Hardware Guide.

                  I only recommended the reviews and said that it looks promising, as it sure does with the interesting support for 3 displays.
                  It's like me waiting on support for my old Rendition Verite chipset.
                  Well, just carry on waiting. Maybe Stella Polaris will include direct hardware support for it.
                  "Kids, don't listen to uncle Solver unless you want your parents to spank you." - Solver

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                  • #99
                    I don't really care too much about this argument just as long as Pekka doesn't waste his money somewhere.

                    Anyway, that said, if I were building a computer for my family if they needed one now, and which I would occasionally use for games, I'd get a Radeon 8500 (unless I could find a GF4Ti 4600 for cheaper, which may be possible, I dunno).

                    Edit: You have touted Matrox's "picture quality" several times. It's fine, like I said, just so long as Pekka doesn't waste his hard-earned money, which is to say that the Matrox Parhelia never should have entered the conversation.

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                    • #100
                      Originally posted by Eroberer

                      The cheapest friggin GF2 card would only have an ever so slightly noticable difference from the greatest Matrox product on earth.
                      I bet you haven't seen the difference between one of Leadtek's GF2 MX 400 based flagships and a Radeon 8500. The difference is easily noticable. Anyway, I guess Pekka is going to buy a Radeon 9000 based card as he said in his last post, AAMOF. He also said that he would consider the situation again in one year or so.
                      "Kids, don't listen to uncle Solver unless you want your parents to spank you." - Solver

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                      • #101
                        Originally posted by Eroberer

                        Edit: You have touted Matrox's "picture quality" several times. It's fine, like I said, just so long as Pekka doesn't waste his hard-earned money, which is to say that the Matrox Parhelia never should have entered the conversation.
                        The Parhelia entered the debate as we started to talk about the cards on a larger scale than Pekka's new PC. So I still consider it as good to notice it by giving a few references about it and mentioning the excellent image quality. When we talk about 3D, I have been sharing my opinion with Asher as you may have noticed.
                        "Kids, don't listen to uncle Solver unless you want your parents to spank you." - Solver

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                        • #102
                          Well I kind of haven't. I am aware of the great advances in anti-aliasing in 3D mode, if that's what you're talking about. Should I look at some "Start" button and grandmother picture comparisons, too?

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                          • #103
                            Originally posted by Rasbelin

                            The Parhelia entered the debate as we started to talk about the cards on a larger scale than Pekka's new PC. So I still consider it as good to notice it by giving a few references about it and mentioning the excellent image quality. When we talk about 3D, I have been sharing my opinion with Asher as you may have noticed.
                            and I've been saying over and over again that image quality is not that big of a deal. Pekka clearly thinks that it is, and I don't want him to be mislead.

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                            • #104
                              Asher has been speaking of the Radeon series as a good alternative, and so have I. Why to mess things up with some goofy grandmother picture comparison?
                              "Kids, don't listen to uncle Solver unless you want your parents to spank you." - Solver

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                              • #105
                                Ras, here's what Pekka said: "I'll see what I can do with it [the 9000 Pro] and when the Matrox is a bit cheaper and people have more experience with it and it's qualities, I might invest to it then."

                                This is a silly situation, and you haven't said anything against it. That led me to believe that you were an image quality nut, a la the Mac freaks with their Photoshop quotes (though I see that you are not nearly like this). For that reason, I have jumped in and tried to point out how silly it is, and you've just kept quoting picture quality in a somewhat strange way.

                                But anyway, now I see that we basically agree. So everything seems in order. =)

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