This pisses me off. People who take joy in 9-11

[des-esseintes]

"Reality is not black or white. It is in shades of gray." -some American



(sorry to all the americans that don't get this)

[SpencerH]

Its pretty clear that there will be no "international mandate" to deal with Iraq. Our "allies" are showing their true colours (off-pink). The question is whether our bilateral assault with the Brits (our only true ally) will actually be worth it.

[Tolls]

The only true ally is the one that always agrees with you?

Right...I see...

[The Pioneer]

Originally posted by UberKruX
half the world tells us to leave them to their own business and the other half tells us to go halfway around the world to do something about it.



and both sides get pissed at us for one reason or another.

Somewhat right! AFAI remember newly elected Bush and his cabinet did not really wanted to get involved in world politics and there was talk about a new isolism of the USA. But the intifada, jihad, this and taht and all wanted the US to come and help, mediate, etc.

But on the other side you do not take well to argument and constructive criticism. Because one argues with another that does not mean they cannot understand or agree with each other. Think of your parents they are not always in agreemnet with each other now are they?


So long...

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by Tolls
The only true ally is the one that always agrees with you?

Right...I see...

No, an ally (or friend) is one that stands with you on important matters even if they do disagree.

Maybe now you see......

[Tolls]

"No, an ally (or friend) is one that stands with you on important matters even if they do disagree.

Maybe now you see......"

Nope...an ally (or friend) shouldn't do something simply for that reason. Especially something that they disagree with.

Consequently I still say you're essentially saying a good ally is one that always agrees with you.

[SpencerH]

Not at all.

An ally (or friend) might try to dissuade or even impede a course of action that they disagree with. So its not simply a matter of agreement/disagreement.

But when push comes to shove, you either stand with your ally or you're not an ally.

I may disagree with my drunken friends decision to openly belittle the Welsh Rugby team while in Cardiff. I may try to dissuade him from continuing. But as a friend I have to stand with him if some Welsh supporters decide to take offense

[Lord Merciless]

Originally posted by The Pioneer
Ok, the attacks in Afghanistan freed the people of Afghanistan and they seem to be better off now than with the Taliban regime. It came years too late, the international community should have done something long before we came to September 11. I also have a favourable outlook on ousting Houssein, with an int'l mandate that is.

What I am wondering though is why the US and the int'l community didn't help prevent the genocide in Rwanda, the mass killings in Yugoslavia, East Timor, the injustices of Mugabee in Zibawbe (sp?), civil war in Ivory Cosat and innumerous other places where genocide, torture, terror, famine have wiped off thousands after thousands of innocent civilians caught in the middle of situation they couldn't control nor avoid!

As for the people even the few (mostly fanatics) that take joy in the killing of innocent civilians I say down with them. Put 'em in a hole so deep that they would never see sunlight again and let hem rot.

So long...

That's the spirit, mate!

Unfortunately, (too) many of your European compatriots chicken out everytime when military force is involved. If it were not for the whining of those people, Bosnian tragedie could be resolved as early as 1992. It's very fortunate that we didn't listen to their whining this time and did our job in Afghanistan.

Morons like this one should finally realize that appeasement has never worked against vicious enemies, and never will.

[Tolls]

Aahh..I see...Bush is drunk!

That explains a lot...

[Tolls]

"...openly belittle the Welsh Rugby team while in Cardiff..."

I should also point out that most of the fans would be heartily agreeing with him.

Bloody WRFU...

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Tolls
"No, an ally (or friend) is one that stands with you on important matters even if they do disagree.

Maybe now you see......"

Nope...an ally (or friend) shouldn't do something simply for that reason. Especially something that they disagree with.

Consequently I still say you're essentially saying a good ally is one that always agrees with you.

You just don't get it -- your country is an American colony.

[The Pioneer]

Originally posted by Lord Merciless


That's the spirit, mate!

Unfortunately, (too) many of your European compatriots chicken out everytime when military force is involved. If it were not for the whining of those people, Bosnian tragedie could be resolved as early as 1992. It's very fortunate that we didn't listen to their whining this time and did our job in Afghanistan.

Morons like this one should finally realize that appeasement has never worked against vicious enemies, and never will.

Yep, there are idiots like him and many others in Europe, the States and everywhere else on this planet. The irony of the situation is that if the US backs down after all the int'l pressure and something bad will happen, like an attack on Israel or Kuwait by Iraq, an invasion of country A into country B then everybody screams and says that the US is indifferent, only thinks of itself, blah, blah, blah. Let's face it the world needed, need and will always need a country that is strong and that will be able to lead. I am just glad that it is the US and not Russia or Germany or some other country. The countries that have followed the "western" doctrine of democracy have been far better off than any country ever before and the US more or less tries to enforce the doctrine when it needs to be, sometimes a bit to strongly but still nothing like Russia and other hegemonies throughout history. I know I am going to get a lot of arguments on this one. But it is the fact that us Europeans have lost a lot of our Geopoltical power that make us often resent US policies. But then you just have to turn to history and see what the european countries did to the world when they were at their peak. (words that come to mind: slaughter, war, slavery, take advantage of certain people, famine, royalty, lack of democracy and miriads of others!)

So long...

[Guardian]

Originally posted by SpencerH
Not at all.

An ally (or friend) might try to dissuade or even impede a course of action that they disagree with. So its not simply a matter of agreement/disagreement.

But when push comes to shove, you either stand with your ally or you're not an ally.

Well, if Saddam starts raising hell again - or if we have reason to believe that he is going to, then we will stand with you.

If we have reason to believe that your proposed course of action can actually solve the problem - or at least be a good step in the right direction, then we will stand with you.

What we will not do is to support yet another round of bombing against a country that's already been bombed more than any other nation in history when nothing good seems to have come out of it so far.

[Arrian]

Well said, Guardian. I actually hope that Blair has some impact on Bush's eventual course of action. My main concern is that whatever we choose to do needs to actually have a positive effect. Nobody likes Saddam, and I doubt anyone would shead a tear if he is "removed" but I worried that we don't have much of a plan for what happens next.

-Arrian

[Guardian]

I don't know... I sort of lost respect for Tony Blair after the last big strike on Iraq back in December of 1998.

After five days of bombing, he went on screen and said something along the lines of "We have no quarrel with the Iraqi people, but we all have a common enemy in Saddam."

As far as I'm concerned, he might as well have fired a machine gun into a crowd and then said he was only trying to get a wasp that was about to sting one of them...

-and then ask the survivors to help him get the wasp, because he missed it!