History and Sexual Orientation

[JCG]

Hitler was most probably bisexual, if not outright gay...and there are good arguments behind this claim.

To back this up, check up on German historian Lothar Matchtan's (sp?) book "The Hidden Hitler" (I think that was the name), published last year or so...

Other than that, Alexander the Great was also bisexual, as well as many other greek/greeklike personas...

[MrFun]

Interesting list, Boris. thanks

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

The fact that Abraham Lincoln was reelected after having issue the Emancipation Proclamation, shows that many Americans have begun to reconsider their views on race, as well as slavery.

Eh... that's a streach to say. I see no causal relationship between the EP and Lincoln's reelection. Most Northerners wanted slavery abolished by that time anyway.

The fact is if the war was going badly Lincoln would have been kicked out. It was the success of the war in 1863-64 that made Lincoln being reelected. The EP had nothing to do with it.

A stretch?? Maybe something like 80% of the reason was indeed due to the success of the war, but to say that there is only one single cause for Lincoln's reelection.
Wouldn't that be a little stretch itself?

Given the virulent racism throughout the 19th century, I would have thought that an American president who abolished slavery through the federal government and gets reelected was indeed part of the social, revolutionary change.
But then again, I have to consider the nadir of race relations from 1880's through 1930's.

Me thinks I might have to create a better thesis.

[spartak]

Originally posted by Ron Jeremy
An interesting one is Edward the Confessor, one of England's most famous kings and for a few centuries England's patron saint. His sexuality is queried- some link him to one of Earl Godwin's sons.

Which one? Harold Goodwinson?

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by JCG
Hitler was most probably bisexual, if not outright gay...and there are good arguments behind this claim.

To back this up, check up on German historian Lothar Matchtan's (sp?) book "The Hidden Hitler" (I think that was the name), published last year or so...

There is very little to substantiate this assertion, and Machtan's book relies almost soley along conjecture that would make Pat Robertson seem logical:

http://slate.msn.com/?id=2059222

The simple truth is that we have no evidence of Hitler's sexual nature, which tends to imply asexualism over anything else.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by MrFun
The fact that Abraham Lincoln was reelected after having issue the Emancipation Proclamation, shows that many Americans have begun to reconsider their views on race, as well as slavery.

I need to do more research -- I might end up creating a better thesis.

Jeff Davis and John Bell Hood did more to reelect the devil incarnate than any Yankee could hope to have. Can't blame Hood too much though, he was continuously stoned off his ass on Laudanum.

McClellan hung his hat on ending the war and letting the south go, then had to reverse himself and commit political hara-kiri after Davis gave away Atlanta.

Lincoln was re-elected based on the sudden, massively favorable shift on the progress of the war, and mass nepotism (mostly Chase's treasury agents), far more than any fundamental philosophy on the part of the northern electorate.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Eleanor Roosevelt was certainly a lesbian...hmmm, how could they omit her???

Because it's unsubstantiated. The claim is based on some of her letters to a close friend (who was a lesbian) which would seem to indicate a sexual relationship, except for the fact that she wrote to many people in the same way. She may have been bisexual (she did love her husband), but even that remains unsubstantiated.

[leftover_crack]

Just an interesting bit i just learned:

Some Roman Emperors were members of a Religous Cult which believed if you loved a young boy and had intercourse and then murdered him you would absorb his lifeforce and live longer.

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by Thucydides
hmm, from what I understand there's fairly good evidence that Richard the Lion-Hearted was homosexual, if that's any help.

There is more evidence of beastiality (equine) for Richard I.

[leftover_crack]

"Other than that, Alexander the Great was also bisexual, as well as many other greek/greeklike personas..."


The more I read about the leaders of the time the more it seems like this was some kind of cult...

[Lefty Scaevola]

For sometime in aient Greece it was cosider normal (for the upper classes) to keep boy sex companian. The companian need to be samller because the only acceptable mode of sex with them was between the thighs. Oral or anal intercouse with them was cosidered a vile perversion. Yet oral intercouse with females (at least prostitutes) was ok.

[Sharpe]

A lot of the names on Boris's list are "creative" history and probably weren't gay or bisexual.

At least Michelangelo, DaVinci, Saladin, Suleiman, Frederick the Great and Augustus Caesar were probably neither gay or bi. The Greeks in the list have to be taken with a grain of salt given the cultural traditions that existed in Ancient Greece.

It should be noted that the list surprisingly doesn't have Edward the Second , King of England in the 14th century and he was almost certainly gay. There is also some evidence that James Garfield, President of the US in 1881 was at least bi. The list contains probably too many famous world changing people, and not very many (or any) less famous or infamous figures of history.

[mindseye]

Froma couple of internet sources:

Throughout Buchanan's presidency there were rumors that he was a homosexual. While there is no concrete proof, the facts are pretty striking. Buchanan remained a bachelor his whole life, and for 24 years lived with William Rufus King, a Senator from Alabama who later became vice-president under Franklin Pierce. King was also never married.

They spent so much time together many Washington circles referred to them as "the Siamese twins," Andrew Jackson called King "Miss Nancy," and James K. Polk named him "Mrs. James Buchanan."

King himself penned long and intimate letters to Buchanan. When appointed minister to France, King wrote to Buchanan, "I am selfish enough to hope you will not be able to procure an associate who will cause you to feel no regret at our seperation." Buchanan later referred to King as "among the best, purest, and most consistent public men I have ever known, and is also a sound judging and discreet fellow," as well as a "very gay, elegant looking fellow."

On May 13, Buchanan wrote to a Mrs. Roosevelt about his social life:

I am now "solitary and alone," having no companion in the house with me. I have gone a wooing to several gentlemen, but have not succeeded with any one of them. I feel that it is not good for man to be alone; and should not be astonished to find myself married to some old maid who can nurse me when I am sick, provide good dinners for me when I am well, and not expect from me any very ardent or romantic affection.

Here is another promising link which I could not open because geocities is filtered by The Great Firewall of China Perhaps some kind soul will quote the relevent contents here.

www.geocities.com/boybluetoo/rufey.html

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Because it's unsubstantiated. The claim is based on some of her letters to a close friend (who was a lesbian) which would seem to indicate a sexual relationship, except for the fact that she wrote to many people in the same way. She may have been bisexual (she did love her husband), but even that remains unsubstantiated.

yah, I know she wanted her husband

that is why I tried to imply unsurity in my post (but I don't know if it came across)

I got it from a book by someone who supported the democrats who was trying toexcuse Clinton's actions by nformation on earlier sexual practices (That is where I also ran into the idea that Buchanan was gay, I think it also suggested that Lincoln was gay too so I took it very lightly)

Jon Miller

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by leftover_crack
He had some wierd sexual habits like having young girls piss on him.

Well. Really. Who doesn't like that?

[Giancarlo]

What is the big deal with who is gay or not? Some of that list that was presented is mostly argumentative... and cannot be proven... but who cares who did what with who?