Alberta fumes over Chretien's promise to ratify Kyoto

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher
Why do I need a degree in journalism to see that they split up the issue into a bunch of different articles on the same page? Tingkai sees one posted online and goes off on a tangent about how badly written it is since it doesn't talk about Chretien's reaction, when that was in another article.

Oh yes, the mysterious other news story. We know it exists because Asher would never lie about this. However, Asher doesn't want to post it because... Well I'm sure there is a good reason why he hasn't posted it, even though this seems quite out of character.

And of course if you go to the Calgary Herald website, you'll find the other article. What? You can't find it. How odd. The only story posted is that bit of government drivel (see the section under "Front Page")

http://www.canada.com/calgary/calgaryherald/

Now I'm sure we're all going to enjoy how Asher will attempt to prove that the Calgary Herald website provides a balanced and fair coverage of this particular news story. Where are the counterview points Asher?

Originally posted by Asher
In this case I also know far more about how the Calgary Herald structures its newspaper than Tingkai

Ah yes, since you're such an expert, you will know that the Calgary Herald staff went on strike three years ago because their articles were changed, without their consent, to provide favourable coverage of business and the government.

Simply put, the article posted by Asher was completely biased and a great example of how not to write a news story.

It demonstrates why the Calgary Herald is considered one of the worst newspapers in Canada. Luckily for Albertans, they have access to one of the best Canadian newspapers: the Edmonton Journal (although with Canwest running it, that may soon change).

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher
Social science degrees are a joke.

They're for people who are afraid of failure in the real degrees, for people who have failed out of the real degrees, or for pinky commies (who are, in fact, communist because they know they don't have job skills for a decent job! ).

Yup, all them economists are commies.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tingkai
Oh yes, the mysterious other news story. We know it exists because Asher would never lie about this. However, Asher doesn't want to post it because... Well I'm sure there is a good reason why he hasn't posted it, even though this seems quite out of character.

And of course if you go to the Calgary Herald website, you'll find the other article. What? You can't find it. How odd. The only story posted is that bit of government drivel (see the section under "Front Page")

http://www.canada.com/calgary/calgaryherald/

Now I'm sure we're all going to enjoy how Asher will attempt to prove that the Calgary Herald website provides a balanced and fair coverage of this particular news story. Where are the counterview points Asher?

You still don't seem to understand that Canada.com is not the Calgary Herald Homepage. Canada.com staff seemingly arbitrarily select "local" news from the papers and put them on the site. The Alberta article was a "local" one, included on the same page was the Sierra Club's response and Chretien's committment to Kyoto (which happened to be Canadian Press articles, which is why they don't show up under the Calgary Herald banner).

I'm sorry if you don't believe me, but you've been basing this all off of assumptions and you don't seem to realize it. I'm still amazed you think the entire newspaper is published online, one quick look at the "website" and a dozen articles and most people with some common sense would clue in not every article is published online.

Ah yes, since you're such an expert, you will know that the Calgary Herald staff went on strike three years ago because their articles were changed, without their consent, to provide favourable coverage of business and the government.

Wanna post a link to it?
At least here when they were picketing their beef was with the Herald cutting local stories by up to 45% (and thereby local jobs)...

It demonstrates why the Calgary Herald is considered one of the worst newspapers in Canada. Luckily for Albertans, they have access to one of the best Canadian newspapers: the Edmonton Journal (although with Canwest running it, that may soon change).

I really like how you've changed your argument over the past 20 posts or so. First it was Albertans only get one side of the story, government propaganda, and now it's focusing on trashing a newspaper.

Are you really hoping no one else notices your attempts to change the topic every time you prove yourself wrong?

[blackice]

Journalists at The Calgary Herald have been on strike since early November in an attempt to gain their first collective agreement. But this strike is also a rebellion of sorts. A rebellion against what the journalists see as heavy handed attempts by management to make news stories more palatable to powerful political and business interests.

http://www.ualberta.ca/~parkland/Post/Vol4_No2/Steward_integrity.html

Wanna post a link to it?

Digging a hole by Asher

[Asher]

Originally posted by blackice
Digging a hole by Asher

By asking for a link I'm digging a hole?

What's kinda funny is that, as I've stated before, the management now is CanWest Global, which is headed up by a butt-buddy of Chretien, so I'm not sure what the point is for all of this.

[blackice]

quote:Taki

Ah yes, since you're such an expert, you will know that the Calgary Herald staff went on strike three years ago because their articles were changed, without their consent, to provide favourable coverage of business and the government.

Quote Asher:

Wanna post a link to it?
At least here when they were picketing their beef was with the Herald cutting local stories by up to 45% (and thereby local jobs)...

Quote Blackice:

Journalists at The Calgary Herald have been on strike since early November in an attempt to gain their first collective agreement. But this strike is also a rebellion of sorts. A rebellion against what the journalists see as heavy handed attempts by management to make news stories more palatable to powerful political and business interests.

Link by Blackice to this report:

http://www.ualberta.ca/~parkland/Post/Vol4_No2/Steward_integrity.html

Wow! you ok there Asher?

You asked for a link to show what taki said. I not only provided it but included a segment for your quick read.

Taki is right most people in Alberta or related to the media know he was right. Now you post that?

Hey why not go out tonight for a pint and relax?

Cheers

[Asher]

Originally posted by blackice
Link by Blackice to this report:

http://www.ualberta.ca/~parkland/Post/Vol4_No2/Steward_integrity.html

Wow! you ok there Asher?

You asked for a link to show what taki said. I not only provided it but included a segment for your quick read.

Taki is right most people in Alberta or related to the media know he was right. Now you post that?

Hey why not go out tonight for a pint and relax?

Cheers

I don't know how many pints you've had, but I haven't heard the story about how the management was forcing them to do this or that, probably because the whole time they were picketing they were chanting about wanting a pay raise and chanting against the limited local stories they were doing at the time. That's why I asked for a link, and then was provided one, I just don't know why you're on the offensive for that one.

But I'm all ears to see how this is at all relevant to the Kyoto article, since it was published under management sympathetic to Chretien's Liberals rather than Conrad Black.

Any takers for that one?

This is all a little sideline argument started by Tingkai to draw attention away from his assumptions he made earlier thinking this was the only article that was published for us to read. What's more is he has since made even more assumptions that Canada.com is actually the real Calgary Herald homepage, when it's just CanWest Global selecting some "local" stories published by the paper and putting them online. Emphasis on some. Then he somehow manages to bring up his qualifications as a journalist, as of this revelation somehow changes the fact that he doesn't know what he's talking about and he's basing it all off assumptions. And then he somehow brings up a 3 year old contract dispute that the Herald journalists had with its old management, and somehow we're supposed to believe that's also relevant?

Tingkai's probably used to playing these games with people, but I'm not going to.

[blackice]

Your apology accepted you were wrong, takes a man to admit that so in a few years get ready to do it. For now you have a grace period.

[blackice]

Now feed on this:

Highlights of Federal Government Spending and Regulation Related to Energy Investments

37. One of the federal government's objectives in promoting improvements in energy efficiency was to help stabilize greenhouse gas emissions at 1990 levels by the year 2000, commonly referred to as Canada's stabilization goal. Promoting greater energy efficiency in all sectors of the economy was a key element of Canada's 1995 National Action Program on Climate Change. Under the Program, federal, provincial and territorial ministers of energy and the environment agreed to work together to achieve Canada's stabilization goal. We examined results of this effort and presented our findings in our May 1998 Report, Chapter 3, Responding to Climate Change - Time to Rethink Canada's Implementation Strategy.

38. In April 1998, NRCan established the Office of Energy Efficiency (OEE). The OEE originated out of Canada's commitment to reduce emissions of certain greenhouse gases to six percent below 1990 levels by 2008-2012. Canada made this commitment when it agreed to the Kyoto Protocol in December 1997.

Government Policy on GHG Emissions

At the Kyoto Summit in December of 1997, Canada's federal government agreed that Canada would reduce its greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions by 6% from 1990 levels by the year 2010. If implemented, this commitment will most certainly impact the $19.1 billion of planned investment in Alberta's oil sands. However, at this time the extent is not known as it is highly dependent on the combination of techniques used to meet the targeted reductions in GHG's. Use of internationally tradable emission permits and of joint implementation projects with developing ountries offer the greatest potential for meeting the targets for reducing global GHG's while minimizing the disruption to the economies of energy producing countries like Canada.

This shows not only did the Alberta government understand the need for GHG's reduction but it also projected it as a fact now. They had agreed to the same thing as koyoto only 5 years before.

All facts point to one basic reality. Not only did Klein know but he did nothing. Hansards has more. Klein is lying to you and the rest of Canada. While I do not think Cretien is a saint Klein is a master of turd too.

3. The National Oil Policy, introduced in 1961, established a protected market for Canadian crude oil producers at prices that were linked to international prices. Consumers west of the Ottawa Valley bought domestically produced oil; those east of it bought imported oil.

4. The days of the National Oil Policy ended in September 1973 when the federal government announced the extension of the interprovincial oil pipeline to Montreal (completed in 1976), froze prices of domestic crude and certain oil products, and sought to control export prices. The federal government announced this change in policy so
that supply problems in the United States would not automatically raise prices for Canadian consumers.

This report and all others shows that for 12 years Alberta's oil industry was protected at world prices by the feds and all provinces west of the Ottawa valley had to buy Alberta oil. All the Nep was to do was to stablize the Canadian economy. But nooooo let the eastern bastards freeze in the dark we heard....After 12 years of support and investment and tax breaks. 90 billion dollars that is a joke... Your own government says 21.2 billion. That went to offset the east coast because they had to buy at world prices simply because there was no way to get the oil to them cheap enough from the west. Alberta and the tar sands went on...

I do not know who tells people of Alberta some of the crap I read here but it is wrong.

Natural Resources Canada
The Green Plan reported Canada's commitment to stabilize greenhouse gas emissions at 1990 levels by the year 2000, commonly referred to as Canada's stabilization goal.Efficiency and Alternative Energy (EAE) Program

10.18 United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change. In 1992, Canada signed and ratified the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change, in which Canada reconfirmed its prior commitment by agreeing to aim to stabilize its greenhouse gas emissions at 1990 levels by the year 2000. In response to this international commitment, federal, provincial and territorial ministers of energy and the environment approved Canada's National Action Program on Climate Change (NAPCC) in February 1995. The NAPCC sets out the strategic directions Canada will follow, a key element of which is promoting greater energy efficiency in all sectors of the economy.

Obviously Canada and the provinces committed to the early days of Koyoto. Obviously then we agreed at that time to do what Klein now is whinning about. So Klein wtf do you mean their has been no meetings, wtf do you mean this comes as a surprise.

What a joke. Canada and the provinces have been involved with this for years. The provinces all agreed to do what Koyoto asks and was implimented years ago. So we pi$$ed away 5 years and now they whine.

10.19 The Voluntary Challenge and Registry Program. One of the initiatives originally envisaged under the 1991 EAE Program was the Energy Efficiency Challenge initiative. The Climate Change Voluntary Challenge and Registry (VCR) Program, launched in early 1995 by federal, provincial and territorial energy and environment ministers, builds upon this proposed initiative as well as on federal-provincial and multi-stakeholder consultation relating to climate change. The federal government considers the VCR Program to be another key element of Canada's National Action Program on Climate Change, as do the provinces.

10.20 The Minister of Natural Resources, acting as the champion of the VCR Program, has issued a challenge to Canadian companies and organizations, including all levels of government, to develop action plans to voluntarily limit or reduce their greenhouse gas emissions. A registry currently maintained by NRCan records commitments, plans and progress.

10.21 A common goal of NRCan's energy efficiency initiatives and the VCR Program is to limit greenhouse gas emissions. Within the action plans developed for the VCR Program, the participants can use NRCan's energy efficiency initiatives and provincial and company-specific programs to reduce their energy use and their emissions of greenhouse gases. For example, the VCR Program provides opportunities for participants to apply NRCan's Industrial Energy Efficiency Initiative and the Energy Innovators Initiative as part of their involvement in the VCR Program. The federal government's own action plan, submitted to the VCR Program in November 1995 and updated in November 1996, includes the use of two of NRCan's energy efficiency initiatives: the Federal Buildings Initiative and the Fleet Energy Program (FleetWise).

The bottom line is the savvy Cretien is going to wait till Klein acts more the baffoon, the CA looks like the idiots they are then he will strike. Taking out both in one fell swoop assuring a liberal landslide in the next election. We have the west to thank for that this time...
Thanks.

This is no surprise at all none what so ever...The agreement the provinces and Canada came to is exactly what they already agreed to except the time frame under Koyoto has provided 10 more years to do it....Surprise! Klein is a flake just like the rest of them.

[blackice]

So not only have the provincial governments been involved in these talks from the onset. It has been going on for several years. Not only is Koyoto the same as the Canadian made agreement but all provices again agreed to it.

Eat it up Asher Klein is nooooo different than Cretien.

[Asher]

I am so totally and completely confused by what you're doing. You're showing that Canada, or more specifically Alberta, has sought its own initiatives to reduce pollution without Kyoto.

You somehow draw some conclusions that Klein is no different than Chretien (just how much did you have to drink?), and go on to talk about how the province has been involved in these talks from the onset.

What happened five years ago is pointless, what we're dealing with is what's happening now.

Kyoto is a flawed treaty that doesn't give Canada clean energy export credits, that allows countries to buy and sell credits, and that is supported only by countries that don't produce oil in any kind of scale. Does that really seem like it'll be a successful treaty in any sense of the word?

The EU is now pissed at Canada because Canada won't sign Kyoto unless we get our own clean gas exports -- and Alberta is fine with this. Klein and the Alberta environment minister has said all along that if we get natural gas export credit we wouldn't have a problem with the deal. The problem is the other Kyoto countries won't let us get credit for it, because they'd rather we buy credits from them later.

I'm not sure you even know what you're arguing about, blackice, because it's completely nonsensical. Perhaps it makes perfect sense to you, but to everyone else reading we're scratching our heads wondering why you're citing these sources and proving Alberta is up to reducing pollution without Kyoto.

It's like you're aimless.

[blackice]

Back to thick as a brick later.

[Asher]

blackice, words cannot describe just how stupid you are.

If you're going to keep posting, perhaps you should read my posts because it seems you have the completely wrong idea for what my position is. You should also actually clarify what it is you're trying to say, rather than randomly copy and paste stuff without citing the source or even explaining the relevance. Afterwards you make some kind of conclusion in poor english which doesn't even seem to be related to the stuff you copy/pasted from elsewhere.

Then when someone asks for you to clarify it you just call them thick as a brick.

[blackice]

Now now do not get testy little boy you have read nothing so far.
You do not want to either obviously, you are stuck on this "we have been wronged again" tripe and no one will displace it.

The information is there Your mission, should you decide to accept it is to read... Mission Impossible.

[Asher]

Arrrrgggggh...

Forget it, blackice. Give up on me, I'm a stupid stupid little boy with no hope. Now go away so people who have the capability to write sentences can play.