sad thoughts on poly posters

[MrFun]

Originally posted by jimmytrick
All of the anit-American crap I am seeing here, including some from Americans makes me glad that I will die some day and not be here to witness the little intellectual integrity and moral timber left in the world slide into the abyss.

America spent the first half of the last century fighting to save Europe from German oppression and the last half holding back the Soviet iron curtain. Now we want to attack terror at its root and few if any posters here credit America as being any better than the Nazis, Imperial Japanese, and Soviet Communists.

Who was willing to fight communism in Asia. We did. Badly, but we did it to prevent the world from being overun with communist evil that would have stripped from every corner of the world every last vestige of freedom and dignity.

And, setting aside the respect and thanks that we are due, the posters here have no sense of history.

I have lived long enough to understand why we must have these regular and horric wars. People are of bad moral character.

What about our "Good Neighbor" policy towards Latin American countries in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, in which the United States sought to impose dictatorships in some of those countries through convert operations and outright interventions?

What about how the United States government did not aggressively begin to abolish segregation until the combined pressures from organized grassroots protests within our country, and from our shameful international image during the Cold War as a hypocritical power for freedom?

What about how we became an imperial power over the Phillipines, Puerto Rico, and Cuba, after the Spanish-American War, instead of liberating those three countries?

What about how we stole the property of loyal American citizens whose ancestry was Japanese, and forcing them to live in desert camps during World War II?

What about the quasi-legal institution of lynching of blacks during the nadir of race relations of 1880's through the 1930's?

What about how we refuse to intervene to stop crimes against humanity in today's world, unless we have compelling economic interest to do so?




Is the United States the only country to have carried out such shameful policies? No -- every country in the world has a dark side to their history, along with a light side to their history.

The United States is one of the handful of countries where it has a lot of potential to be a force for liberty with equality in the world, but so far, our leaders have repeatedly fail to effectively, and consistently embrace that ideal.

[monkspider]

Well stated fun, it should be remebered that the founding fathers never intended for this to be a philanthropist nation of liberty, equality and fraternity for all it's inhabitants. This was to be a nation for liberty, equality, etc. for a small number of land owning elite white males. Women, poor whites, blacks, and native americans weren't even considered human beings in this grand vision of the much celebrated founding fathers.

[notyoueither]

It really sucks how it all worked out, eh?

[David Floyd]

White women were certainly considered human, the Founders just believed that their role was in the home and to be subservient to their husbands in all things.

[notyoueither]

What a revolutionary thought that was.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by monkspider
Well stated fun, it should be remebered that the founding fathers never intended for this to be a philanthropist nation of liberty, equality and fraternity for all it's inhabitants. This was to be a nation for liberty, equality, etc. for a small number of land owning elite white males. Women, poor whites, blacks, and native americans weren't even considered human beings in this grand vision of the much celebrated founding fathers.

I only partially agree with you Mr. Commie.


At the end of the American Revolutionary War, the 3% of the soldiers who were black slaves, were granted their freedom in many cases.

Poor whites were giving the enfranchisement in the 1830's during the Jacksonian era.

White women were activists in the areas of temperance, women's suffrage, abolition, and peace movements -- they were not exactly locked up in their homes during the 19th century.

As for blacks and Amerindians, in most cases, that is where your statement of being seen less than human is closer to how certain groups of people were perceived.

[monkspider]

Floyd - I agree It's unreasonable to blame the founding father's for not being outspoken feminsts, but women were nonetheless excluded from their declarions of liberty and equality. That said, Women were much better off than minorities though, for simple reasons of necessity.

[David Floyd]

Oh certainly, I'm just saying the were seen as just as human as men were, their roles were just defined differently in those days. Most women back then would have agreed with this

Not that it's a good thing, of course, but ultra-feminism is no better.

[monkspider]

Originally posted by David Floyd
Not that it's a good thing, of course, but ultra-feminism is no better.

Now that I agree with you 100% on.

I do cherish these moments of agreement with you David, it always gives me a warm, fuzzy feeling about humanity.

[MrFun]

Guys -- read my last post.

Women were definitely active in the public sphere of 19th century America.

[monkspider]

I agree that they were active Fun, so were slaves. There were a lot of planned and actual slave revolts. As well as more subtle disobediences as well (such as refusing to work very hard, or running away, etc). But being active didn't do either of these groups much good for a long time.

[MrFun]

But I think your exaggeration might have misled me to believe that you perceived that white women had no public opportunities to advocate their interests.

[monkspider]

Ah, I appologize, what I meant was that while the declaration of independence preached liberty and equality for all. It was unthinkable that women would actually be considered part of the "all". Despite this, they did do well to influence public policy on a number of things, just as you mentioned.
Sojurner Truth is a great example, she helped free a lot of slaves, and spoke often on the subject of aboltion. She was not only a woman but also an african-american! So she had the odds exponentially stacked against her.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by monkspider
Well stated fun, it should be remebered that the founding fathers never intended for this to be a philanthropist nation of liberty, equality and fraternity for all it's inhabitants. This was to be a nation for liberty, equality, etc. for a small number of land owning elite white males. Women, poor whites, blacks, and native americans weren't even considered human beings in this grand vision of the much celebrated founding fathers.

Boy, you women really know how to hold onto a grudge!

[Dis]

I believe americans are responsible for every case of cancer and heart disease since 1948. for this alone they should be banished from the face of the earth.