Selective Service - Keep it or Ditch it?

[The ANZAC]

rah: I've always been a proponent of 1 year mandatory service and voila you're free to go

[David Floyd]

God, I love all the people that can think of no valid scenario that we might need a draft. YES< THE US IS INVINCABLE. And complacent as heck.

Fine. Give me an example I can relate to where we would need the draft to defend ourselves.
Only one I can think of is a magical world without ICBMs where someone uses Starfleet replicators to manufacture a massive navy and land on US soil.
And even THEN, volunteers would be sufficient to stop it.

I firmly believe that ALL US citizens should be forced to serve 1 or two years in some type of service, either military or humanitarian.

What about people morally opposed to war?

Besides providing an opportunity to earn our citizenship.

Where's the Constitution say anything about that? And in any case, what exactly are my taxes for, then?

It could go a long way towards ending a lot of racial bigotry. Forced service is the great equalizer. Rich man, poor man, black man, white man, hispanic, hetero, gay, whatever.
NO rich daddy exceptions. All together. Most biotry comes from ignorance. Serving together would give the chance for diverse people to interact on neutral grounds. It's hard to hate all blacks, when you have some black friends. Some might learn that it isn't the desire of every gay man to seduce them. Most of my youthful ignorance was easily dissipated once I actually started interacting with diverse people.

You are possibly correct on that note, but I don't see how that justifies a new form of slavery.

[rah]

Originally posted by David Floyd
Fine. Give me an example I can relate to where we would need the draft to defend ourselves.
Only one I can think of is a magical world without ICBMs where someone uses Starfleet replicators to manufacture a massive navy and land on US soil.
And even THEN, volunteers would be sufficient to stop it.

How about a biological attack. I'm just saying, that in the coming years how can we be so sure of ourselves.

Originally posted by David Floyd
What about people morally opposed to war?

You'll notice I did say military or humanitarian.

Originally posted by David Floyd
Where's the Constitution say anything about that? And in any case, what exactly are my taxes for, then?

Most 18 year olds haven't paid squat in taxes yet.
And for the constitution, that's what we'd be protecting.

Originally posted by David Floyd
You are possibly correct on that note, but I don't see how that justifies a new form of slavery.

Giving back to the country that has given us so much, isn't what I consider slavery. I call it duty.

RAH

[Ramo]

And for the constitution, that's what we'd be protecting.

Odd way of protecting the Constitution by ignoring one of the most important amendments.

Giving back to the country that has given us so much, isn't what I consider slavery. I call it duty.

Most people don't consider something given if it's been forced from them.

[David Floyd]

How about a biological attack. I'm just saying, that in the coming years how can we be so sure of ourselves.

How would the draft protect against biological attack?

You'll notice I did say military or humanitarian.

Oh, OK, missed that. Well, forced military service for those who don't object to war, and forced labor for those who do. Some choice.

Most 18 year olds haven't paid squat in taxes yet.

I certainly did - two years worth by the time I was 18. Most of my friends did too.

And for the constitution, that's what we'd be protecting.

No, that's what we'd be destroying if we started down the path of forced labor, involuntary servitude, slavery, even. Pretty soon we'll start setting up gulags, right?

Giving back to the country that has given us so much, isn't what I consider slavery. I call it duty.

And I told you, my taxes are already giving back. And in any case, just because someone hasn't paid taxes YET doesn't mean they never will. People under 18, really people under 25, primarily go to school. Which do you think is more important, wasting 2 years of your life in the military, or going to higher education for two years?

But this is all irrelevant, because the Constitution and Bill of Rights say nothing about forcing someone to "give back to the country" or anything like that. They DO say that the right to life, liberty, and property MUST be protected by the federal government. The draft deprives a person certainly of their liberty, and possibly their life, and that means that the government would be in violation of the Constitution and Bill of Rights - the Supreme Law of the Land - and would not be acting in accordance with their proper function.

[rah]

The draft to protect during the aftermath of a biological strike. And I really don't care how viable that is, the point is, you think we're so invinceble. Every empire eventually decays.

I guarentee the pithens that you've paid in taxes by 18 are insignificant.

But the biggest problem I see, is that you see it as forced labor. You're part of the entitled generation. It makes me ill. ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME

Most of my generation would see it as duty, and what can I give. Not what am I owed.

Disgusting.

RAH

[Ramo]

But the biggest problem I see, is that you see it as forced labor.

How is it possibly not forced labor?

You're part of the authoritarian generation. It makes me ill. FORCE FORCE FORCE

[David Floyd]

The draft to protect during the aftermath of a biological strike. And I really don't care how viable that is, the point is, you think we're so invinceble. Every empire eventually decays.

In the aftermath of a bio-strike, we still have the nuclear deterrant.

I guarentee the pithens that you've paid in taxes by 18 are insignificant.

Not to me, they certainly aren't, and I will certainly be paying plenty of taxes either. Besides, by age 18, I've been living off of my parents, not the state, so it's only appropriate (in this line of reasoning) that I haven't paid many taxes.

But the biggest problem I see, is that you see it as forced labor.

How is it NOT forced labor?

You're part of the entitled generation. It makes me ill. ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME

Since when do you see me supporting entitlement programs. Amusingly enough, the biggest "entitlement generation" seems to be that of old people. They want to mooch off of everyone with Social Security, Medicare, etc., and they generally don't give a **** who, if anyone, they hurt. ME ME ME ME ME ME that's all I hear out of old people.

But you know what ticks me off the MOST? People from ANY generation who have the attitude of "My country, right or wrong".

Most of my generation would see it as duty, and what can I give. Not what am I owed.

So, most of your generation would see it as their duty to submit to forced labor and slavery. The two are not exactly incompatible, mind you - in the Bible, for example, Jesus said that slaves have a duty to their masters.
And the only thing I think that I am owed is the protection of my individual liberties. And the draft has never BEEN needed, IS NOT needed, and cannot, in any conceivable circumstance, BE needed to fulfill that, which is pretty much the only function of just government.

Disgusting.

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by David Floyd








And I told you, my taxes are already giving back. And in any case, just because someone hasn't paid taxes YET doesn't mean they never will. People under 18, really people under 25, primarily go to school. Which do you think is more important, wasting 2 years of your life in the military, or going to higher education for two years?

But this is all irrelevant, because the Constitution and Bill of Rights say nothing about forcing someone to "give back to the country" or anything like that. They DO say that the right to life, liberty, and property MUST be protected by the federal government. The draft deprives a person certainly of their liberty, and possibly their life, and that means that the government would be in violation of the Constitution and Bill of Rights - the Supreme Law of the Land - and would not be acting in accordance with their proper function.

Are you saying I wasted 5 years of my life being in the military?

Bite me.


I don't think it's a big deal myself. It's a little piece of paper that you sign at the post office. Do you think you will actually be drafted? If you don't then why worry about it?

[David Floyd]

Are you saying I wasted 5 years of my life being in the military?

Bite me.

No, absolutely not - if you have no problem with the military and want to volunteer, then it is no waste. Heck, I almost did ROTC.
The wasted time comes in when one has no desire to spend time in the military and have more productive things to do.

I don't think it's a big deal myself. It's a little piece of paper that you sign at the post office. Do you think you will actually be drafted? If you don't then why worry about it?

It's the concept - I find it highly offensive that the government should have a mechanism for keeping tabs on me in order to force me into slavery at some point.

[Tuberski]

Forced labor or slavery?



First, you get paid, so there goes slavery.

Second, I LABORED less in the military, than any other job I have had.

[Ramo]

Slaves were "paid" for their labor in clothes, food, and housing. I guess that made them free people, right?

[David Floyd]

First, you get paid, so there goes slavery.

See Ramo's post.

Second, I LABORED less in the military, than any other job I have had.

Since when does the amount of labor have anything to do with whether or not it is forced?

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by Ramo
Slaves were "paid" for their labor in clothes, food, and housing. I guess that made them free people, right?

So are children.

Slaves didn't get a paycheck either.

[Ramo]

So are children.

Child labor is often illegal, you know. There's a reason for that.

Edit:
Children are not considered free citizens. Whether you consider that good or bad, that's a fact. Their parents are able to tell them what to do, within limits.

Slaves didn't get a paycheck either.

Some slaves did. Some, in fact, bought their freedom.