Selective Service - Keep it or Ditch it?

[Dis]

but I do say to ditch it. We can scrape up a draft if we need to. Our armed forces are large enough to prevent us from being overrun in the time it will take to draft 1 million men. It's not like we have the military of 1941 now is it? We are now ahead of Portugal in military might

[David Floyd]

And one of those codes is that the able bodied men defend the society from attack.

Says you, of course. And of course there is the other minor point that in no case has the draft been necessary to actually defend the US.

In the War of Northern Aggression, it was used to facilitate offensive war. In WW1, it was used for basically the same thing, and was in no way necessary to protect the shores of the USA. WW2, same story - not necessary to protect the US. There were plenty of volunteers for home defense. Korea and Vietnam are the most clear-cut cases of the draft having nothing to do with defending the US, and that at least you should agree with me on.

In all the above scenarios if you don't want to follow societies rules you have to leave and become a hermit or something.

Sounds rather like saying "If you don't like Jim Crow laws, leave", or "If you don't like 100% taxes, leave". There's such a thing as an unjust law - and an unjust law is NO law.

[Sava]

Other forms of welfare are merit based too, David. Being poor and not having a job opprotunity is a requirement. So is being hungry and not having a place to live. So is suffering from mental illness and being unable to function in society.

But we should just put all those people to death at birth, right David? Or at least do nothing and let them suffer. Yeah, that's the christian thing to do right.

[Dis]

well I won't argue about ww1, ww2 etc. Those were offensive wars.

But in your original post you said draft is wrong in every circumstance.

But I agree that draft should only be used if our shores are attacked. Although you could make a case they were attacked in ww2. But we didn't really have to fight Germany now did we? Sure they declared war on us, but they didn't have the capability of doing anything about it.

[monkspider]

Sava is actually right here Dave, I pray that you will abandon this heartless and unchristian approach to life before it is too late.

[David Floyd]

Other forms of welfare are merit based too, David. Being poor and not having a job opprotunity is a requirement. So is being hungry and not having a place to live. So is suffering from mental illness and being unable to function in society.

How does a poor person merit my money any more than the local retailer does? Giving it to the local retailer will certainly help the economy more, and society in general - you should support that, seeing as how most of your arguments are based upon the good of society rather than individual rights.

But we should just put all those people to death at birth, right David? Or at least do nothing and let them suffer. Yeah, that's the christian thing to do right.

That's funny, a liberal, who probably supports abortion, talking about the christian thing to do

OK, yes that was a stupid troll, but seriously...there are avenues open to them, including charity, religious organizations, family, and continuing to work - they certainly won't starve or die of exposure.

[Sava]

Originally posted by monkspider
Sava is actually right here Dave,

I knew it would happen sooner or later

[Sava]

It doesn't merit your money. They shouldn't just get your money. But they should have access to free education, free job opprotunities, and free health care so that they can become self-sufficient. And I'm sorry, but the money has to come from somewhere. Taxing is necessary because no rich people are going to front the money to create such a system.

[David Floyd]

But in your original post you said draft is wrong in every circumstance.

It is - even if the US were invaded, FORCING someone to die in defense of the US would be wrong. Granted, this is a moot point, because virtually everyone would volunteer, including the two of us, and is also moot because there is no way the US could be invaded, and is further moot because the US would use nuclear weapons rather than human wave attacks.

Sure they declared war on us, but they didn't have the capability of doing anything about it.

Well, they certainly had the capability to sink our ships - read up on Operation Drumbeat.
But the point is that we did not attempt a negotiated solution, we let our diplomatic relations with them go to ****, and prior to the outbreak of war we were escorting war materials to Britain, giving war materials for free to Britain and Russia, and firing on Uboats or radioing their positions to Britain.

[Sava]

Forcing someone to die in the defense of the US is bad, but not as bad as everyone dying or being enslaved by a foreign aggressor.

You need to think outside the box Davey.

[David Floyd]

Forcing someone to die in the defense of the US is bad, but not as bad as everyone dying or being enslaved by a foreign aggressor.

You need to think outside the box Davey.

If thinking outside the box means living in Fairyland where someone actually CAN invade the US, I'll just stay right here.

Taxing is necessary because no rich people are going to front the money to create such a system.

What are you talking about? Rich people give to charity all the time, as do corporations.

[Shi Huangdi]

Merit based aid is NOT a form of welfare. It is a means that universities use in the interest of the university to get higher-talented students with better SAT stats then they would normally get so as to improve their prestige.

I think the SS is something that it is time to ditch- as I understand it a draft wouldn't be very useful in modern warfare, so it is probably just a waste of money.

[monkspider]

I'm in agreement with Sava here David, moreover, as a christian you should support programs that help out those less fortunate than you to the best of your ability. You shouldn't resist them kicking and screaming. You will have to answer for your actions one day you know.

[Dis]

I just have to say its an unwritten rule of society the feds just decided to make official in the form of a draft.

As for germany of course their u-boats posed a significant threat. I think volunteers were enough to support naval manpower needs.

[Sava]

Originally posted by David Floyd


If thinking outside the box means living in Fairyland where someone actually CAN invade the US, I'll just stay right here.

Maybe I'm just silly, but don't you think the reason nobody can invade us is because of the deterrence of our military? And much of that deterrence is the fact that we'll send every able-bodied man (and now women) to die in the defense of freedom? But again, maybe I'm just silly.

What are you talking about? Rich people give to charity all the time, as do corporations.

Oh, I'm sorry. Can you tell me where the free school is. I'd like to finish up my under-grad and not have to pay this huge student loan. And next time I get sick, can you tell me where the free-hospital is so I'm not stuck paying thousands of dollars in medical fees?

Rich people only give enough money to make it look like they're making a difference. Don't you dare say that corporations actually care about giving money to charities. Corporations only care about profit margins and making money. Only very few people actually contribute money in goodwill rather than to improve their image.