This is hilarious (US foreign policy)

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Guess what?

US sent an official treaty suggestion that the two countries should not give each other citizens to International War Crimes Tribunal.







Even better - they sent the same request to - guess where - BELGRADE.

to Serbia for those who do not know where Belgrade is.

Dear Lord Almighty?!?

As if we and they (their former enemies, at least percieved by common people there) do not have enough problems for persecuting the generals and soldiers who commited attrocities during the last Balkan war, they send us a note for an agreement not to send their citizens there so they wont send ours. - naturally after Milosevic is ousted. While the country is still in political turmoil.

Taliking about one sided / blind .. etc foreign policy. Talking about stabbing the Euros in the back, as it will be much harder to proceed with putting the guilty people forward in both countries and Bosnia, and this is the first ICC test.

I have no english link

this is daily Croatian paper here: http://www.vjesnik.hr/html/2002/08/1....asp?r=unu&c=2

By the way - Belgrades response was - translated : We were pleasantly suprised by this offer as this will mean we will be able to avoid the responsibility to the court in Hague.


There was some US envoy in Zagreb (Croatia) and said that US will help us judge the (war) criminals ourselves - doesn't specify how. And naturally the response from Hague was - No way this is ever gonna happen if you want to join EU.

Talk about stirring the spirits diplomatically. A rather good reason to dislike US, as they are fully aware that this will cause political instabilities in the area (as our progressive and first trully democratic government almost fell over the Hague issue a few months back). But that is the point- innit.
- not to mention Serbia where it will just strengthen reactionary politics. A true and clean stab for the Euros, probably the biggest since WWII.

It will be interesting how the whole thing resolves, but I hope our government will not fall. (even though it is just a minor majority, and one of the main parliament splitting issues is Hague)

[Shi Huangdi]

Excellent. Another blow to international law.

[DinoDoc]

We shouldn't even be in the Balkans. Serbia was well with in its rights to act against Kosovo.

[Jaakko]

I've always wondered about this tough-guy realpolitik stance. Some seem to want the US to act like the proverbial bull in a china shop, but somehow without consequences. It should be clear that it doesn't work by now.

[DinoDoc]

BTW, would someone care to translate the article linked to in the opening post? I have no idea what it says.

[spartak]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
Excellent. Another blow to international law.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

While I will be the first to be glad that US did get involved, as the are would be another Lebanon thanks to than UK/French political ignorance. And we freed ourselves finally. With stability in the region as it is particularly as the result fo Clinton administraqtion.

The new administration wants to use want was left of the instability (which is now internal in the new states themselves, not a war as it used ot be), in their own interests to harm the ICC.

Well - as Duffy Duck would say - despicable.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave
The new administration wants to use want was left of the instability (which is now internal in the new states themselves, not a war as it used ot be), in their own interests to harm the ICC.

Sounds like a brilliant ploy!

Now post an English translation of the article!

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
BTW, would someone care to translate the article linked to in the opening post? I have no idea what it says.

I just posted it for reference sake, I know no valid Croatian/English automatic translators. Still there are a few people on this board that can read - so it is for them . But I told you what it was basically. US coming forward with this treaty. - Actually they are going forward with this to everyone, but to us they are willing to "give us a hand too" in order to get Hague off our back as we have our own citizens in Hague.

[orange]

Originally posted by Spartak

My sentiments exactly

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Sounds like a brilliant ploy!

Now post an English translation of the article!

Actually it is nothing new it is typicall: We know what we want and we will get it anyway we can style, no matter what the consequences might be for the actual situation political or else, in the county involved.

No wander most of the world doesn't like US. (especially the latest incarnation of the US government)

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave
Actually it is nothing new it is typicall: We know what we want and we will get it anyway we can style, no matter what the consequences might be

The technical name for it, based on what you told me, would be "Divide and Conquer."

Edit: Also based on what you told me, it has a real chance of sucess.

[DinoDoc]

BTW, if this is the "deal" you are refering to, you're blowing things out of proportion:

Yugoslav Leader Opposes Deal with U.S. on New Court
Reuters

BELGRADE - Yugoslav President Vojislav Kostunica has come out against a U.S. request for a bilateral deal to prevent American citizens from being turned over to the new International Criminal Court (ICC).

The United States, which has roughly 5,000 peacekeepers in the U.N.-administered Yugoslav province of Kosovo, strongly opposes the new court and has approached countries to negotiate bilateral agreements to avoid the prosecution of American personnel in their jurisdictions by the ICC.

Kostunica, whose predecessor Slobodan Milosevic is on trial for war crimes at the International Criminal Tribunal for former Yugoslavia in The Hague, said any agreement to exempt people from prosecution by the ICC would undermine international law.

"Those who would enjoy immunity from prosecution would not only sleep soundly, but would also be encouraged to keep committing crimes," state news agency Tanjug quoted Kostunica as saying late Monday.

His remarks reflect a widespread feeling in Serbia that Washington is applying double standards, pressuring Belgrade to cooperate with The Hague tribunal while it seeks to win exemptions for its own citizens from the ICC.

FEAR FOR PEACEKEEPERS

Washington says hostile nations may abuse the ICC to bring politically-motivated cases against Americans, notably its troops on peacekeeping missions around the world. It had threatened to veto such missions.

The U.N. Security Council in July agreed unanimously to give U.S. peacekeepers a year's exemption from prosecution by the ICC, which was set up in The Hague on July 1 this year to deal with war crimes and other gross human rights violations.

Switzerland Tuesday also thwarted U.S. efforts to win immunity for its citizens.

Foreign Minister Joseph Deiss said Switzerland would extradite U.S. nationals to the ICC if necessary. Any bilateral agreement would undermine the court in tackling atrocities such as genocide and war crimes, Deiss said.

"The second reason is maybe even simpler. We think such a contract is not necessary because a situation in which American soldiers would undertake peacekeeping operations in Switzerland would be very unlikely, if not impossible," he said.

Canada and Norway have also shunned such deals.

Yugoslavia's eastern neighbor Romania became the first to sign a deal with the United States this month.

Romania is an aspiring NATO member, and EU officials have said they fear other mostly eastern European NATO candidate countries were under U.S. pressure to follow suit. The EU is a strong supporter of the new court.

Yugoslavia is not a candidate for NATO membership but wants to join the alliance's Partnership for Peace cooperation scheme.

"The real question is whether this court will try everyone and really be a court or try only some and, in that case, will not be a court," Kostunica said.

The president's comments are in line with his frequent attacks against "selective justice," which he normally levels at the U.N. war crimes tribunal in The Hague. He has accused the court of bias against Serbs.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Not to mention that Croatia is probable the only country ever that has given its citizens on trial for crimes commited while FREEING the country.

Which is RIGHT, as bing in war does not allow you to commit crimes ageinst civils/ elderly from the other side. Naturally there was and still is a huge dissent against that in the country. As I said the government almost fell a few months back because of that. (complying with Hague)

And the political line of the minor majority is: We have freed our country and we have nothing to fear, let our generals, etc go there and prove that we have nothing to hide. - which is great. Even though I am certain there will be people that will finish in jail ( at the end it was a War).


Naturally the line of the minority is: No this was a war for freedom and we are not guilty. - and that is it. Our generals are our heroes, and noone can sue them. (in other words, if a few of them -and these are just few but still) ordered villages to be burned and civilians to be killed, that was the price for freedom. (as if freedom would not be achieved with or without that). These guys are heroes, but still, you shoul dbe held responsible for purposful killing of civilians nevertheless. I myself would like to be protected with that kind of law "or at least principle" in my life, shold I find myself in a war situation what already happened once.

I percieve this as a struggle to get someone to be responsible in warfare, and that future "ethinc cleanser, mass murderers" and the like know that after the war finishes they will be held responsible for what they did.


And now this from our allies US.

[DinoDoc]

Nowhere in the request does it mention preventing other people from going before the ICC or the Hague.

The US is only trying to work out a deal that exempts its peacekeepers from ICC prosecution, as is its right under the Rome Statute.

Take your hysterical ranting elsewhere.