The World's Most Important Battles

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Ethelred
a phyric victory.

Pyrrhic victory.

[Az]

fascinating. I've never heard of it. Thank you people.

Ayn Jalut: yes that's a very important one. The Mongols are a force of enormous importance, that surpasses that of the Romans, in my opinion. They're the cause of the fall of Islamic civilization, and the reason why this region suffers to this very day, with the destruction of civilization, and cultural monuments, sending the region centuries backward.

Sten: whatever that decision was , by the chinese fleet, it's eclipsed by the stupidity of one of their emperors, that ceased trading altogether, and began a policy of isolationism.

[Fiera]

Originally posted by Ethelred
Your missing Lepanto where Venice broke the Moslem hold on the Mediteranean.

Not only Venice. The Holy League included in fact the Papal States, Venice and Spain, but the main bulk of the forces were Spanish, as was the commander of the fleet (Juan de Austria, Philip II's brother).

[Saras]

Being Lithuanian - Tanenberg 1410. Lithuanian-Polish joint force beats the Teutonic Order, effectively ending its existence as a political entity.

That lead to the Orders Reformation, building the foundations on German Prussia, which in turn lead to the rise of German militarism, and 1870, and 1914, and 1939...

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin


Pyrrhic victory.

The last guy that did that to me had no sense of humor.

I guess I will let you off.

I never claimed I could spell. At least I used a Y.

[Lord Merciless]

Talas River was really not decisive at all because the An Lushan rebellion in 755AD, only 4 years later, would utterly devastate the Tang dynasty.

As I said before, the 5th Han offensive against the Huns in 119BC had far greater consequences: it did only establish Han(Chinese)'s dominance over East Asia, but also forced the Hun migration to the West, and opened the Silk Route. Especially the Hun migration would prove devastating for Romans 500 years later.

[Dauphin]

The last guy that did that to me had no sense of humor.

I guess I will let you off.

I never claimed I could spell. At least I used a Y.

If it were a typo I would let it go. I see no harm in correcting people on the spelling of unusual words.

That and I have no sense of humour.

[Lord Merciless]

Originally posted by Azazel
Sten: whatever that decision was , by the chinese fleet, it's eclipsed by the stupidity of one of their emperors, that ceased trading altogether, and began a policy of isolationism.

Try read Ray Huang's "1587-A Year of No Significance". This book fully explained the reason why China went into decline after 14th century and why they stopped oversea tradings all together.

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin


That and I have no sense of humour.

Well then. I might as well say it. I like saying it anyway.


Little things for little minds.


There. Are you happy now? I sure am.

[Adam Smith]

Originally posted by Lord Merciless
There were several other important battles such as Kadesh 1245BC, Granicus 334BC, Ipsus 301BC, Chang Ping 260BC, Cannae 216BC, Zama and Gai Xia 202BC, Cynocephalae 197BC, Corinth? 168BC, Carraeh 53BC, Alesia 52BC, Actium 31BC, Guan Du 200AD, Chi Bi 208AD, and Rome 410AD, but I would rather consider their effects to be either localized, only part of a long chain of events, or already a foregone conclusion.

can you elaborate on these? I am especially interested in the Chinese ones. Thanks.

[Az]

Try read Ray Huang's "1587-A Year of No Significance". This book fully explained the reason why China went into decline after 14th century and why they stopped oversea tradings all together.

would you summarize, since I don't have the book at my disposal?

[LDiCesare]

I am not knowledgeable about all, particularly Eastern history, but here is my opinion from the list and maybe others:
Salamis 480 BC - Not that important. Consider the Greeks just before the rise of Macedonian Philip were paid by the Persians to wage their internal wars and most cities recognized the Persian king as their king of kings. It was more a recognition in speech than anything else, but what differentiated Greece from a satrapy?
Zama 202 BC - Doomed Carthago. Probably quite important, yes.
5th Han offensive against Huns 119 BC - Seems to have had enormous consequences from Asia to Europe.
Teutoburger Wald 9 AD - Again, quite important, as it draw part of the line of current day frontiers between Romance speaking countries and German speaking countries.
Adrianople 378 ?
Badr 624 ?
Tours 732 - Poitiers as stated above. Probably the most important heretofore mentionned imo.
Talas River 751 ?
Hastings 1066 - Nope. The English would have been the same without Norman lords.
Ayn Jalut 1259 ?
Tenochtitlan 1521 - Yes.
Spanish Armada 1588 - Probably quite important too, but I somehow doubt the English would have suffered a setback had they lsot here.
Vienna 1683 - Yes.
Saratoga 1777 - Yes.
Waterloo 1815 - No. I really think the important battle was Valmy. This one allowed the French revolution to survive, and this had much more impact than Napoleon conquests. Without it, it is very probable that France would still be a monarchy. I think Napoleon's empire was doomed from the beginning, as there was no legitimacy to it, and even if he had managed to keep his empire all his life, what would have it become after his death? I think battles like Trafalgar were more important than Waterloo as they key to Napolean's defeat were the Brits, not the allied. I'd also say the absence of battles in Spain was more important, as it was the beginning of guerilla, which changed the way warfare was held and made occupying enemy territory much harder than ever before.
Verdun 1916 - Although a stalemate, it was the greatest skaughter ever. This battle drained France and Germany totally. And people who fought it still made nightmares about it 80 years later.
Stalingrad 1942 - Yes but.
Midway 1942 - Yes but.
You forget the Battle of England. Had the German planes managed to deal more damage to England and London, destroy the fleet, they could have landed in England, and it would have been very hard to dislodge them from the West.

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by LDiCesare
Hastings 1066 - Nope. The English would have been the same without Norman lords.

No we wouldn't.

The entire political system was changed. The cultural identity of the country was transformed almost beyond recognition.

[Sten Sture]

Originally posted by Saras
Being Lithuanian - Tanenberg 1410. Lithuanian-Polish joint force beats the Teutonic Order

iirc you owe the Poles a bit of a thank you on that one!


LMercy - thanks for the book recommendation - looking it up now. and checking out the An Lushan rebellion, sounds quite interesting.

[Lord Merciless]

Originally posted by Adam Smith
can you elaborate on these? I am especially interested in the Chinese ones. Thanks.

Do you want the short version or the whole story?