Rugby - The game they play in heaven

[Andydog]

I'm not sure what NPC games will be televised on Sky here in the UK. It will probably be just one selected game very early on a Saturday morning. I imagine therefore it would be a struggle for most to get out of bed for it, especially those with bitter hangovers to contend with.

I'll miss the first three anyway as I'm off tomorrow to Spain for three weeks. HA HA!

Has there been any discussion about the vote of no confidence in the current NZRFU board by the 27 provincial unions? I've been too busy to catch up on these threads lately. It was the best news I've heard in ages. As I've said before, it's about time some new blood stepped in to take the reins - relationships need to be mended to get the game back on track.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Making it a trophy that takes some winning. It now makes sense to me how important it is to both nations.

Prior to the Tri-Nations, the Bledisloe was usually played as a 3-Test series. I do recall one year when there was a one-off Test. A lot of Kiwis and Australians rate the Bledisloe more important than the Tri-Nations for obvious reasons.

I would have liked to have read some of that to see how it compares to the output of our rabid hacks.

Basically they criticised the Wallaby performance. But, as I pointed out once before, we don't have the crap tabloids you have, so the quality of the writing is higher. So the Wallabies weren't slaughtered in tabloid fashion. The faults and problems were identified. Not that they were hard to spot.

The forwards were sadly lacking in both big games. Eddie knew that, and work continues apace. We will see how far you have come on that one when you step into the white meat grinder.

Yes, Eddie isn't afraid to recall the forwards' performance and it has preoccupied him this year. Nathan Sharpe is going to miss the tour unfortunately. He's having a shoulder op.

Keep in mind I’m pure front row material okay

But you can use the word "fulsome" properly. I think that qualifies you for honorary membership of the "Backs Club".

Thanks for checking up on the laws. I knew I was on fairly solid ground on the punch front from listening to various refs in the club house last year (if you recall a favourite player of mine was red carded and later banned for a reaction punch when an opposing player jumped on his back)

The bottom line to it all is that the refs are not applying the laws applying to punching. There is also a law - which, again, I skipped in order to avoid posting the lot - that says a player cannnot retaliate, that retaliation is treated exactly the same way as any other breach.

I couldn’t agree more that they need re-drafting in plain language.

I might submit my CV to them.

[Havak]

A lot of Kiwis and Australians rate the Bledisloe more important than the Tri-Nations for obvious reasons.

My punt at that would be the Kiwis are upset that they have lost hold of it given their rugger heritage, and the Aussies love to hold onto it for the same reason? ;-)

so the quality of the writing is higher

I know you have asserted this before, and I’m not well placed to argue it, but I will say to you that I have still never read such a load of biased overtly racist bilge as some of the stuff I saw in your Sports pages last year whilst down there – step forward the Sydney herald. I’m sorry but some of that stuff made our tabloids look good. Some of my tour party were quite concerned at how angry some of the press stuff made me – and persuaded me to stop reading it.

Not that they were hard to spot.

It was the pack. What could be simpler than that?

Nathan Sharpe is going to miss the tour unfortunately. He's having a shoulder op.

I understand you have walking wounded too? Harrison needs an ankle Op but is delaying it for after the tour? Someone else is touring who needs surgery I think though the name has slipped my mind. On the plus side Giffen and Waugh are expected to make it. If Waugh is fully fit he may play as first choice – his more physical style will be better suited to opposing Hill and Back than Smithy is I think? Especially as the senior England players have just had their first totally free summer for five years after they were allowed not to tour – I’ve read Hill’s comments on how he is raring to go for the new season (and what is more he plays for Saracens if you decide to back them).

But you can use the word "fulsome" properly. I think that qualifies you for honorary membership of the "Backs Club".

There are few things worse you can say to a forward than to call him a ‘girly’ like that – but I’m sure you were unaware of that, it’s just a Pommy hangup right?

And you have no idea how paranoid I now am about using the word ‘fulsome’ again.

that retaliation is treated exactly the same way as any other breach.

And that is totally correct, even though it costs my club dearly (they have a ‘one in trouble, all in’ spirit).

Refs are bottling red cards full stop. Which made it all the more bizarre Paddy the Kiwi yellowed a punch then invoked the team warning to send of the high tackler?

By the way the only side in the Tri-nations not to concede a penalty for high tackling was the All Blacks. I expect Caligastia is very proud?

I might submit my CV to them.

Go for it – you are certainly qualified.

Just over a week to the kick off of the English and French seasons. And I’ve managed to fill the close season almost entirely by catching international rugby at the weekends. Year round rugby – marvellous stuff.

I guess we have to face that the thread will probably fade until November – after all all the Aussies seem to offer until the tour is the Tooheys New cup?

Should that happen we have to rely on Caligastia to resurrect it in time right?

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Havak
And that is totally correct, even though it costs my club dearly (they have a ‘one in trouble, all in’ spirit).

Remember Franck Tournaire is also an expert in retaliation, good recruit ! ;D

Fortunately he is an excellent prop (when he wants to).

I now know why the Leicester vs. Stade Toulousain match has been cancelled, the Orange Cup against Biarritz has been scheduled the day the Stade Toulousain should have played against the Tigers.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
My punt at that would be the Kiwis are upset that they have lost hold of it given their rugger heritage, and the Aussies love to hold onto it for the same reason? ;-)

A bit of that. A bit of the traditional needing to beat your nearest neighbour and (in many ways) ally.

I know you have asserted this before, and I’m not well placed to argue it, but I will say to you that I have still never read such a load of biased overtly racist bilge as some of the stuff I saw in your Sports pages last year whilst down there – step forward the Sydney herald. I’m sorry but some of that stuff made our tabloids look good. Some of my tour party were quite concerned at how angry some of the press stuff made me – and persuaded me to stop reading it.

On first reading, your para baffled me. I'm very familiar with all the SMH rugby writers. None of them usually deal in that sort of thing - Then it hit me! You were probably reading the immensely unlikeable and untalented Peter Fitzsimons, former Wallaby second-rower and champion self-aggrandiser whose only aim is to use the word "I" as often as possible while being utterly offensive to both whomever he's writing about and the craft of writing. How the man has parlayed such a lack of talent into job at the SMH is beyond me. And a lot of people.

I hope you can remember who the writer was. You probably can't. But I would bet it's Fitzsimons.

I understand you have walking wounded too? Harrison needs an ankle Op but is delaying it for after the tour? Someone else is touring who needs surgery I think though the name has slipped my mind.

Yes, there are a couple of walking wounded. I'm not sure whether Harrison - or indeed any of the injured - will go. It's still not clear what approach will be taken to the tour - how much of it will be sorting and re-sorting for the WRC, much as the French did when they came here.

On the plus side Giffen and Waugh are expected to make it. If Waugh is fully fit he may play as first choice – his more physical style will be better suited to opposing Hill and Back than Smithy is I think?

The best news of all is that David Giffen made his comeback to club rugby last weekend. It also appears he will be staying with the Brumbies after toying with leaving. Waugh will also be fully fit which will help too. Yes, he and George will compete for the same spot. And George has been bulking up for precisely the reason you mention. I suspect we can also look forward to seeing a lot more of David Lyons playing on the tour. He's a readymade replacement for Owen F and needs time against strong oppo to help his game.

Methinks, as well, that there could be a couple of surprise selections for the tour - some smaller, very quick, very good runners of angles (a la Rogers). I think the Bok mosquito fleet had more of an impact on Eddie et al than they're admitting.

There are few things worse you can say to a forward than to call him a ‘girly’ like that – but I’m sure you were unaware of that, it’s just a Pommy hangup right?

:guffaw:

And you have no idea how paranoid I now am about using the word ‘fulsome’ again.

Just think how many of your friends you'll impress on the terraces when you use it correctly, though. And when you distinguish between "less" and "fewer".

Refs are bottling red cards full stop. Which made it all the more bizarre Paddy the Kiwi yellowed a punch then invoked the team warning to send of the high tackler?

And only gave Nathan Sharpe a very mild rebuke. It's crazy.

By the way the only side in the Tri-nations not to concede a penalty for high tackling was the All Blacks. I expect Caligastia is very proud?

Well, leaving aside their locks, who are too lazy to reach down to tackle around the shoulders, no one else in the team's over 5' 5", how are they going to reach up?

I guess we have to face that the thread will probably fade until November – after all all the Aussies seem to offer until the tour is the Tooheys New cup?

Should that happen we have to rely on Caligastia to resurrect it in time right?

I'm not going anywhere. This is my year to find out a lot more about the specifics of NH rugby. It'll be hard not being able to see much of it, but I'll keep up. And, as we've proved before, when every other bugger disappeared to visit their in-laws in Boise, Idaho, or went on hols to Carcasonne, or whatever, we managed to keep the damn ship afloat!

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Havak
By the way the only side in the Tri-nations not to concede a penalty for high tackling was the All Blacks. I expect Caligastia is very proud?

Sure, but Im more proud of the fact that we were only 2 points shy of winning all the tri-nations games, and that we won the tri-nations.

Did you know that this is the 4th time the All Blacks have won the tri-nations? 4 out of 7 aint bad! NZ also has provided the winning team for 6 out of 7 super12 competitions.

Did I mention that we were unbeaten in 96 & 97?

Should that happen we have to rely on Caligastia to resurrect it in time right?

Yeah, I will stop it from sinking too far. I will probably make some comments here and there on NPC games, even though they may fall on deaf ears...

[Havak]

Remember Franck Tournaire is also an expert in retaliation, good recruit ! ;D

Fortunately he is an excellent prop (when he wants to).

Thanks Tamerlin – he should fit right in on both counts. By all accounts Jonno (sorry Finbar!) has been very impressed with Tournaire in training and the warm up game against Agen.

Yes it appears both our Unions were plotting the Orange cup and ordered Toulouse and Tigers to cancel the fixture without announcing why – simply because the deal was not yet signed at that time.

I fully expect us to lose this fixture – I’m not sure how seriously the boys are taking it and France is not a place to be relaxed about any game you play.

I hope you can remember who the writer was. You probably can't. But I would bet it's Fitzsimons.

A rugby nut engaged on a three week permanently boozed up tour and you expect me to remember the name of journos? I can’t remember the name of half my tour party!

Seriously I didn’t register it – I was so disgusted with the stuff I glanced through I didn’t take time to find out who had written it. I’ll see if I can find any of his stuff to check the style. As a writer one of the first things you check is the author I guess? To me I just labelled it as “a ranting Aussie journo”.

It's still not clear what approach will be taken to the tour

If neither Sharpe nor Harrison travel you are dangerously light in the lock department. You really cannot afford that against us. Giffen is class but he is new back from injury as you say and the ask on him would be immense if he is the only seasoned first choice lock? I bet Justin travels (after all he is big mates with Kafer and it’s a free ticket to England to meet him?).

Jones may treat the tour as developmental but I suspect he will only do so in the non-England clashes?

I thought I had read somewhere Giffen only needed to put pen to paper to be a Reds player? So he decided to stick with ACT did he? I wonder if he is looking further forward to his sterling pension?

I’m also looking forward to getting a proper look at Lyons hopefully – without Poido wibbling on in the background.

I think the Bok mosquito fleet had more of an impact on Eddie et al than they're admitting.

Which has to make me smile as we are still slavishly aiming to build a team of “big, strong backs” in the aussie mould.

Jason Robinson is the exception – quick, clever and elusive he still hits the tackle harder pound for pound than any player I have seen in recent years. Sadly he did indeed come from the ‘red card’ code of course.

when you distinguish between "less" and "fewer".

There’s a difference?

And only gave Nathan Sharpe a very mild rebuke. It's crazy.

It was very strange. To re-iterate I back your call for consistency completely.

leaving aside their locks, who are too lazy to reach down to tackle around the shoulders, no one else in the team's over 5' 5", how are they going to reach up?

Where is Caligastia when you need him? I thought I had set you up to say that they were never on their feet but that was even better.

we managed to keep the damn ship afloat!

We sure did, but I’ll tell you what bothers me. As our season gets underway what do I have to mention but Tigers all the time? I fear for your sanity!

[Havak]

Sorry Caligastia I missed your post whilst writing my last one.

So 5'5" then? What does he mean?

I actually was aware of the stats you quoted - it was essential information for touring Aus last year.

Did you know that in both your unbeaten seasons Australia finished bottom (thats right - more essential tour information)

By the way Micthell is apparently thinking of resting Merhtens, Marshall, Roberston and McCaw - I do hope that isn't true!?

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Havak
Sorry Caligastia I missed your post whilst writing my last one.

So 5'5" then? What does he mean?

No idea, perhaps Finbar needs glasses...

I actually was aware of the stats you quoted - it was essential information for touring Aus last year.

Did you know that in both your unbeaten seasons Australia finished bottom (thats right - more essential tour information)

I had forgotten about that, probably because at the time Australia were not considered a threat, so having them finish bottom was nothing exciting or unusual. Thanks for reminding me though!

By the way Micthell is apparently thinking of resting Merhtens, Marshall, Roberston and McCaw - I do hope that isn't true!?

I havent heard that, but I did read an article saying that he was more interested in building for the RWC than winning the european tour matches. We do have some decent replacements for those players (and in Marshall's case, a superior replacement), so Mitchell is probably planning to give them some more big-match experience. Where did you read this BTW?

[Havak]

Read it on the BBC Sport website which is generally a fairly reliable source.

I saw you and Finbar discussing the other scrummy but who is the alternative Fly Half? Robertson and McCaw seem to leave a substantial gap in your forwards too?

[NeoStar]

Five Wallabies in Tri XV =

Zurich Tri-Nations XV:
15 Werner Greeff (South Africa), 14 Breyton Paulse (South Africa), 13 Tana Umaga (New Zealand), 12 Aaron Mauger (New Zealand), 11 Stirling Mortlock (Australia), 10 Andrew Mehrtens (New Zealand), 9 Justin Marshall (New Zealand), 8 Scott Robertson (New Zealand), 6 Owen Finegan (Australia), 7 Joe Van Niekerk (South Africa), 5 Nathan Sharpe (Australia), 4 Simon Maling (New Zealand), 3 Greg Somerville (New Zealand), 2 Jeremy Paul (Australia), 1 Bill Young (Australia)



Four Australians have been named in Rugby World magazine’s Greatest World XV =

Rugby World's XV:
S Blanco (Fra), D Campese (Aus), M Gibson (Ire), J Mazo (Fra), J Lomu (NZ), M Ella (Aus), G Edwards (Wal), G Price (Wal), S Fitzpatrick (NZ), T Rodriguez (Arg), J Eales (Aus), C Meads (NZ), J-P Rives (Fra) (c), D Richards (Eng), K Tremain (NZ).

GO THE WALLABIES

[LDiCesare]

Four Australians have been named in Rugby World magazine?s Greatest World XV =

Rugby World's XV:
S Blanco (Fra), D Campese (Aus), M Gibson (Ire), J Mazo (Fra), J Lomu (NZ), M Ella (Aus), G Edwards (Wal), G Price (Wal), S Fitzpatrick (NZ), T Rodriguez (Arg), J Eales (Aus), C Meads (NZ), J-P Rives (Fra) (c), D Richards (Eng), K Tremain (NZ).

Four? Campo, Ella, Eales... Where is the fourth? Maybe you meant four Kiwis?
Although I think Lomu is overrated here. I'd rather see someone like I. Evans in his place. He was a damn good welsh winger. Pity he played when Wales were so bad (I remember a Lions team made of Evans for Wales, Hastings for Scotland, one tighthead prop I can't remember the name right now for Ireland, and 12 Englishmen...)

[NeoStar]

Originally posted by LDiCesare

Four? Campo, Ella, Eales... Where is the fourth? Maybe you meant four Kiwis?

Prop Topo Rodriquez, who represented Argentina before playing for the Wallabies, is the 4th.

Not the kiwis, mate

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Havak
Read it on the BBC Sport website which is generally a fairly reliable source.

I saw you and Finbar discussing the other scrummy but who is the alternative Fly Half?

Tony Brown would probably be the alternative.

Robertson and McCaw seem to leave a substantial gap in your forwards too?

Errr...to be honest I dont know who their replacements would be. I imagine we will find out when Mitchell swaps players around for the european tour.

[Havak]

LDicesare named a true Welsh rugby legend there. Ieuan Evans - Captain Cymru. One hell of a player indeed. Broke English hearts one time with a sneaky last minute try at the old Cardiff arms. Sadly he finally retired last year.

The Lions have been dominated by Englishmen since the 89 tour (or Campo's finest hour for Neostars benefit - remembered for the greatest mistake that loud mouth ever made)

Well the tri-nations team is meaningless to me – only a current world XV would peak my interest. You would get some very interesting calls as the only scrummy I’ve seen that would push Gregan out this year is Galthie. Needless to say you would struggle to have either lock, only Jack getting into contention at all in the absence of Giffen. And you would have to work very hard to get me to pick any non-Englishmen in the front row at all (Ibanez maybe...).

That all time team is truly bizarre - clearly voted for and compiled by vested interests. Nice to see Richards get the recognition he deserves but just one Englishman is simply ludicrous - and having a recent Aussie forward in the mix shows the 'selectors' involved here are pretty clueless too.

Okay Gareth Edwards, no argument there - but where is JPR (the welsh one) then?

I think we'll certainly have a lock from England in there - and where is Willie John Mcbride???

Mark Ella? Not a shade on Larkham or Wilkinson surely? Finbar?

Eales is a hell of a nice guy and a well rounded player but anyone who picked him specifically at lock over his English opponent from last year really needs their head examining big time.

Oh and Rodriguez isn’t an Australian. Under current IRB regulations neither he nor Noriega could ever have pulled the jersey on. I have no time for border hoppers myself.

You sense the unbalanced hand of mainly SH voting in this all time team I think? A few welsh ex-pats in NSW skewing a few of their favourites in? But probably not enough even so – only some of the classic AB sides come anywhere near the Welsh sides of the seventies IMO. I would like to see a ‘currently playing’ World XV that isn’t limited to the Tri-nations - because, shock horror, all the best players don’t come from there

I know exactly who I would go for – and they come from a wide variety of countries – but certain French and English players definitely displace some of the tri-nations ones in that side – there are also Irish and Scots I would strongly consider and one Welshman if he is fully fit. How about one of you has a stab first though – and please don’t just write “the Wallabies” Neostar?

There is one question I’m itching to ask by the way Neostar, you do realise you lost the tri-nations don’t you???