Ahh, Americans and their ADD

[The Emperor Fabulous]

Originally posted by Verto
Are you even American? Speaking for myself and those I know, I was aware of terrorists and those that hated America ( before Sept. 11, and I am aware that they still exist. In all probability, terrorism will live on in one form or another.

Born and bred, but my eyes are open enough to point out the ignorance of the general public.

Believe it or not, outside of your bubble, a good number of people really didn't know nor care about the hatred towards this country. Then they took up the flag after Sept. 11th, and since they're been nothing "big", they're going back to their ignorance.

[Imran Siddiqui]

The Dancing Cow man is right. Most people in the US had no idea all these people hated us... and yes, I've been an American all my life.

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by David Floyd
Americans want a return to normalcy, but most of the fools can't recognize that the only way to secure normalcy is drastically change our foreign policy, withdraw and disengage our military personnel from the rest of the world.

I see. Then normalcy is an ostrich with its head buried in the sand.

Your isolationism is way outmoded. The US has business interests everywhere in the world and even in space these days. Get over the Alamo and at least get aquainted with the twentieth century. That way you will only be a few years behind the world instead of still living in the Pre-Civil War era.

Nations that are not willing or able to protect there intersts lose them. Your answer to terrorism is to run and hide and lose all our interests.

[Rasbelin]

Monk,

so Tarja Halonen (the current president of Finland) is probably that sexy you'll have to use her as your avatar? Cool!

[Pekka]

Monk, This means WAR!

[Goingonit]

Originally posted by Dan Severn
Israel has been fighting for its life since before it was even recognized.

We were awfully easy on Iraq in the Gulf War. They invaded one of our allies, we sent them reeling, then made peace. So to blame the US for the gulf war is hor****. Saddam knew perfectly well that invading Kuwait would mean war.

You clearly don't know DF very well. He feels that having allies is wong.

[Jac de Molay]

I see. Then normalcy is an ostrich with its head buried in the sand.

Sounds like a perfect description of what the rest of the world chooses to do in the face of adversity. Strikes me as funny that the US is always looked to when the going gets tough in the various hotspots of the world, then those on the sidelines choose to pick at the weaknesses of our actions like vultures.

We're damned if we do and damned if we don't. Perhaps we can rely on the braintrust of critics like you to show us the path to Enlightenment.




Dave

Edit

[Verto]

Originally posted by Goingonit


You clearly don't know DF very well. He feels that having allies is wong.

I thought he was referring to the U.S. acting as peacekeeping forces, or maybe how President Clinton spread our military across the globe.

Maybe I was mistaken.

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by DetroitDave

Sounds like a perfect description of what the rest of the world chooses to do in the face of adversity. Strikes me as funny that the US is always looked to when the going gets tough in the various hotspots of the world, then those on the sidelines choose to pick at the weaknesses of our actions like vultures.

So are you suggesting that we too should bury our collective heads in the sand and just hope the bad people don't dig the sand away and then kick it our faces?

We're damned if we do and damned if we don't. Perhaps we can rely on the braintrust of critics like you to show us the path to Enlightenment.




Dave

Edit

Gee Dave I wasn't the one critisizing US foreign policy. That was the other Dave. He is advocating that we hide from reality. I take it you are agreeing with him or you would have given the to him instead of me.

So then I would have to say YOU are the critic and not I. I only critized DF. Even that idiot and former isolationist Dubya Bush learned that its a stupid, shortsighted and foolish policy. So I guess DF is even more reactionary and obdurate to learning then Dubya is.

Well if Duby can learn to deal with reality maybe someday both you two Daves can learn too.

[Verto]

WAIT a minute. First America is accused of sticking our nose in other people's business, and putting our foot where it isn't belong, throwing our weight around, etc...

Then the isolationalist policy is called stupid, shortsighted and foolish? Let's have a consensus so you can all work in cohesion when you make jabs at the U.S.

And I can probably dig up some quotes by the Founding Fathers and others who say the US shouldn't sign treaties that will make her fight someone else's war, etc.

[The Emperor Fabulous]

There's a difference between isolationist government and isolationist public

[Verto]

Not in America. If the people are isolationalist, then the government will fall into place, if for no other reason than the politicians want to be reelected. Hence all the public opinion polls.

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by Verto
WAIT a minute. First America is accused of sticking our nose in other people's business, and putting our foot where it isn't belong, throwing our weight around, etc...

Don't blame me for that. Thats a bunch of nonsense. Well sometimes we overdo it but its not as if we have no business in other nations. International trade is important to the US economy and so are our allies.

Then the isolationalist policy is called stupid, shortsighted and foolish? Let's have a consensus so you can all work in cohesion when you make jabs at the U.S.

Well even the President gave up on the isolationism he clearly intended to go for when Dubya became President. He learned and he really isn't too bright so maybe others can learn also.

And I can probably dig up some quotes by the Founding Fathers and others who say the US shouldn't sign treaties that will make her fight someone else's war, etc.

That was then. This is now. The world has changed in 200 years. Only the isolationists haven't. The US was not capable of fighting much then. The US now is. Besides I don't see the US fighting someone elses wars. I see it fighting its own. Even the Viet Nam War was supposed to be in the US interest. I don't think it was but that was the idea.

Look at this way for a moment for a moment Verto. Do you think the US should not have participated in WWII? Dave Floyd thinks we should not have. If you agree with that there is little hope for you. The only hope for David is that he learns to deal with reality someday instead of some nonexistant idealized world that only exists inside his mind.

[David Floyd]

Of course we should not have fought in WW2. That caused the death of 435,000 Americans, whose deaths were caused by the United States government. Don't blame Germany for shooting them when they attacked German soldiers, blame the US for sending them 4000 miles away to a war that didn't concern us.

As to the Gulf War, Iraq invaded Kuwait and was threatening to invade Saudi Arabia - two backwards-ass Muslim dictatorships we had no business supporting, especially in the case of Saudi Arabia. Add to that fact that the US Ambassador gave Iraq the impression we would not intervene if they invaded Kuwait, and it's a pretty clear case of US militarism and intervention into a foreign war for economic reasons.

[Boris Godunov]

That, and Iraq's grievance against Kuwait was probably legitimate. Kuwait had been stealing Iraqi oil, and had pretty much said "nyah-nyah" to Iraq about it.

WW2: Still doesn't wash, DF, as we were attacked first. Germany declared war on us, not vice-versa. And we had a very vested interest in making certain Nazi Germany didn't rule from Scotland to Stalingrad.