"Kissing"? Or just "friendly"?

[Alinestra Covelia]

Well, this topic rears its head once more in debate. I won't even pretend that it has nothing to do with my present love life.

Consider the following:

He's smart. He's smooth. He's immaculately dressed and definitely looks good on you. He's your ideal man, your Mr Right, your completing half, and he feels pretty much the same way about you. There's only one thing - he's your cousin.

I've heard from various friends that I'm being crazy. I know what I'm doing is frowned upon by the traditionalists in my family, not least my parents and his. But I also know that what I feel is special - and by special, this could mean both "especially good" as well as "unnatural" (insofar as that word means anything concerning human behavior).

So what do you think? Is this a matter for consenting adults in private? Is this a self-assumed risk which an adult may responsibly bear? Or is this a crime against blood, the firing shot of a civil war that will threaten to engulf and tear apart a family network?

Answers on a postcard please. And I'm rather pushed for time too.

[loinburger]

Re: "Kissing"? Or just "friendly"?

Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia
Is this a matter for consenting adults in private? Is this a self-assumed risk which an adult may responsibly bear?

Yup. Incest carries risks of causing birth defects in offspring, but otherwise it's just a meaningless taboo. If you're not planning on having kids, then what the hell, no harm no foul.

Or is this a crime against blood, the firing shot of a civil war that will threaten to engulf and tear apart a family network?

If your family isn't going to be at all supportive (if instead they're going to be terribly upset by this), then either they're being rational about it or irrational. Talk to them discretely. If they have a rational reason for why you two shouldn't hook up, then talk it over with them, maybe you'll convince them that their fears are unfounded or maybe they'll convince you why hooking up is a bad idea. If they're being irrational ("It's a sin, because I say so!", for example), then either say "to hell with them" (I do not recommend this), say "to hell with my cousin" (I do not recommend this), or act with discretion.

[Apocalypse]

Well the currect percentage of babies with birth defects (excluding ones caused by things like drugs) is 3%. Cousins average 6%. Not that big of a jump. I don't know if the defects are more severe for cousins though.

[Giancarlo]

Based on my own personal convictions, I would recommend against having a relationship with a family member. Just the way I think...

[Provost Harrison]

Hmmm, seems odd, probably by social convention.

But hell, move to the deep south of the US, and you will be in the norm

[Kassiopeia]

Well, it really depends on your personal morals. Does the possible losing of The One really outweigh the outcome? Are you the ones who think that life is short and you should take ahold of it as strongly as possible and grasp any possible chance, or will you submit to the will of others and do against your own feelings? I can't have an opinion on your personal situation, and I'd rather not tell you what I'd do myself, because I am not you, and my family is not your family (and I do not have cousins).

[Provost Harrison]

Oh and if you ever reproduce, may I remind you of the Hardy-Weinberg equation and the effect on the numbers of the inbreeding coefficient?

[Giancarlo]

Since my knowledge in science is pretty limited, wouldn't inbreeding cause an weakened immune system?

[Apocalypse]

Many other things affect the immune system. Most likely that system would not be affected.

[Tiamat]

PH!!! I live in the South, but that would be Texas not the back hills of Kentucky! Only joking.

I had the same problem once while I was a teen. I became attracted to my cousin once. To be honest I think it truly is hormones. Yes and before you go making your see I told you so comments regarding the South.......lets do keep in mind that I am adopted so the incest thing really holds no water for me except from a moral stand point.

Anyway back on topic. Evaluate your feelings. Is this really....honestly...truly Mr. Right or is he Mr. Right Now. Is it that he fills some need or desire? Does he feel the same way? Does he know how you feel? Even if everyone felt mutualy the same you would still have the stigmata of "dating" your cousin as well as possible shunning from your family. Is that really worth a bit of possible hormones?

[Provost Harrison]

Well not really, depends on what traits end up becoming homozygous which could effect anything. As you know, if you take two random individuals, totally unrelated, their probability of having a deleterious allele at any one locus may be very low (lets say, for arguments sake, 1%). Therefore if two people reproduce, the probability of the child acquiring two of those genes would be 0.01x0.01=0.0001=0.01%, a very slim chance. However if they were two cousins reproduce, the fact is that if one of the couple possess the deleterious allele, the probability of them possessing that allele is far higher because of the common descent, and the probability of them also possessing that allele is 1 in 8 for a cousin, if the former possesses it. Thus the probability of the child being homozygous for this gene is 0.01*0.125=0.00125=0.125%, a massive 12 1/2 times greater of being affected by this genetic condition...apply that to all loci, all these nasty genetic conditions using the same mathematics and you will see why inbreeding is not a good thing

...I am sure I have omitted something in there...but never mind, it serves the illustration well.

[Tiamat]

BRAVO!!!! Give that man a cookie!

[Alinestra Covelia]

I'm pretty sure he feels something similar for me. We met up in Beijing just before it was time for me to leave (melodramatically, on the last day I could). This is by no means the first time we've met, so it's hardly a sudden thing.

We had dinner together, went for drinks along the Sanlitun bars together. He showed me his female friends and they all looked somewhat anxious...

Later, we hit the lounges and got tipsy together. Arm wrestling matches occurred. We went to the opening of a new club. Dancing occurred. Much laughter - much of it uproarious.

Then it's time to go back for some sleep, and he comes with me to see me back safely. He goes with me as far as the hotel doors, and when I take advantage of a cousinly hug to kiss him on his bare neck, he responds in kind.

He says it's a terrible shame we're cousins, otherwise we'd make a lovely couple. Then he's gone. Twenty four hours later, and I'm gone too, back to America.

What he said got me thinking - why should it be a "terrible shame"? I have to wear contacts for my eyesight - if I started dating a guy who also needed sight correction, am I endangering my future unborn generations? How far should I step back from my present happiness and concern myself with the distant future?

Bear in mind that this year I turn 23.

[pchang]

Screening

If you have the money, you can have a genetic screening test done on you and your cousin. This will be able to detect the presence of most of the bad alleles that we know about. Then, you can get a more accurate picture of how likely you two are to produce children with genetically inherited diseases.

[orange]

wow...that's tough...really, really tough...

If all else fails, you could sell your story to a porn stories site.