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African Famine MAY Be Caused By 1st World Pollution

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  • #31
    Originally posted by loinburger


    You can't force your chemistry on me!


    Good one, loin.


    And I agree with Chegitz -- food is power, and one of the ways that Western nations can keep African nations powerless, is to control how much food is exported to Africa.
    A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by MrFun
      And I agree with Chegitz -- food is power, and one of the ways that Western nations can keep African nations powerless, is to control how much food is exported to Africa.
      If the West would live up to its creed and practice free trade with Africa, Africa would be exporting food to us. But instead of that the West spends over $300 billion US per year of agricultural subsidies*. This makes it uneconomical for many Africans to grow their own food because food imports are so cheap.

      The West should remain true to capitalism: eliminate the agro subsidies and eliminate agro and textile tarrifs on African imports.


      *And for those of you who think this money is helping out mom & pop, most of it goes to large corporations and other wealthy persons such as NBA player Scotty Pipen who recieved about $130,000 in farm handouts last year. Welfare reform for the wealthy and corporations now!!!

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      • #33
        I was not correlating CFCs with that other compound so don't try to screw up my statements. I was just saying that could of been the cause for environmental degradation as well.

        Originally posted by MrFun
        And I agree with Chegitz -- food is power, and one of the ways that Western nations can keep African nations powerless, is to control how much food is exported to Africa.
        Wrong. Corruption is the roadblock. As long as leftists remain ignorant about corruption and pour food into these countries it will end up to the 1% who control everything.

        Carver, if food imports are cheap then why aren't African countries buying more? Boom. I just shot your argument down.
        For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Fez
          Carver, if food imports are cheap then why aren't African countries buying more? Boom. I just shot your argument down.
          From fao.org June 14, 2002 Rome:


          "NEPAD identifies agriculture as a priority sector," Mr Mbeki, said. In 2000, Africa spent US$18.7 billion on food imports and received 2.8 million tonnes of food aid, more than 25 percent of the world total for that year.

          According to FAO, the agricultural sector in Africa accounts for about 60 percent of the total labour force, 20 percent of total merchandise exports and 17 percent of the GDP. Because agriculture plays such a critical role in the African economy, developing a healthy agricultural sector is a precondition for further economic development.

          "Until the incidence of hunger is brought down and the import bill reduced by raising the output of farm products, there is no way in which the high rates of economic growth to which NEPAD aspires can be attained," according to the FAO/NEPAD joint Comprehensive Africa Agriculture Development Programme (CAADP) report.


          As you can see Africa spending $18.7 billion US on food imports every year is seriously crippling. Unfortunately, US leaders would rather dole out the 2.8 million tonnes of food aid than engage in free market reforms that would enable Africa to grow more, thus improving Africa's balance of trade and making the target of 7% growth per annum more feasable. America needs to practice what it preaches and trust the markets.

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          • #35
            Oh they are? Then where is this food going to? The tinpot dictators of most of these countries and their ruling elite.

            7% growth per annum is highly illogical. No way that will ever happen. Not with the corruption there now.

            Mozambique is probably the only country to attain that and will be the only one.
            For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Fez
              Oh they are? Then where is this food going to? The tinpot dictators of most of these countries and their ruling elite.

              7% growth per annum is highly illogical. No way that will ever happen. Not with the corruption there now.

              Mozambique is probably the only country to attain that and will be the only one.
              Fez, your brush, which is apparently wide enough to stretch from Dakar to Addis Ababa, is not being used wisely. To simply paint every African government as corrupt and paint corruption as the root of every problem is misleading to the point of being libelous. Is there corruption? ....sure. But the disparate terms of trade imposed on Africa by the West is clearly one of the continent's biggest problem.

              I would do a rethink before calling the Obasanjo, Kufour, Wade, Mkapa and Mwanawasa governments (in Abuja, Accra, Dakar, Dodoma and Lusaka, respectively) corrupt.

              And yes Mozambique's performance (now that South African commanded rebels have stoped blowing things up) has been very stong, 8% last year and the latest figures look like 15%. But it is hardly "illogical" for other nations to hit the 7% target. Tanzania, Ghana, Uganda and Botswana have been consistently strong performers.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Carver


                Fez, your brush, which is apparently wide enough to stretch from Dakar to Addis Ababa, is not being used wisely.
                And I stand corrected, because there are the few governments that actually are not that corrupt.

                To simply paint every African government as corrupt and paint corruption as the root of every problem is misleading to the point of being libelous.
                I didn't say every. I said most in Africa. The corruption is deep and any loans are misused.

                Is there corruption? ....sure. But the disparate terms of trade imposed on Africa by the West is clearly one of the continents biggest problem.
                MASSIVE corruption in most countries throughout Africa. That is the biggest problem. Don't go blaming the west when the problem is infact in the governments in Africa themselves... well at least most of them.

                I would do a rethink before calling the Obasanjo, Kufour, Wade, Mkapa and Mwanawasa governments (in Abuja, Accra, Dakar, Dodoma and Lusaka, respectively) corrupt.
                Obasanjo? Am I hearing right? His government is literally tainted with corruption.

                And yes Mozambique's performance (now that South African commanded rebels have stoped blowing things up) has been very stong, 8% last year and the latest figures look like 15%. But it is hardly "illogical" for other nations to hit the 7% target. Tanzania, Uganda and Botswana have been consistently strong performers.
                Mozambique somehow developed a highly transparent government where corruption won't taint the economic picture. Tanzania, Uganda and Botswana... but what about all of the other nations? And those three you named have high aids infection rates which could cause massive implication to economic performance.
                For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Fez
                  Obasanjo? Am I hearing right? His government is literally tainted with corruption.
                  Nigeria certainly has a corruption problem, but not even Obasanjo's fiercest critics at home would say that Obasanjo himself is corrupt. In fact much of the ethno/religous strife in Nigeria is caused by people who want to cause trouble for his government and bring it down exactly because Obasanjo has cut off their corrupt gravy trains. I'll take an Obasanjo in every African capital any day.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Carver


                    Nigeria certainly has a corruption problem, but not even Obasanjo's fiercest critics at home would say that Obasanjo himself is corrupt. In fact much of the ethno/religous strife in Nigeria is caused by people who want to cause trouble for his government and bring it down exactly because Obasanjo has cut off their corrupt gravy trains. I'll take an Obasanjo in every African capital any day.
                    He has lacked any economic initative in not taking his country off oil and towards better economic ventures like manufacturing.
                    For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Fez
                      I was not correlating CFCs with that other compound so don't try to screw up my statements. I was just saying that could of been the cause for environmental degradation as well.
                      But we aren't talking about environmental degredation, Fez. Read the damned article before you make comments on it! We're talking about diminished rainfall. And CFCs don't harm the immediate environment, they destroy ozone, which is a different problem.
                      Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by chegitz guevara


                        But we aren't talking about environmental degredation, Fez. Read the damned article before you make comments on it! We're talking about diminished rainfall. And CFCs don't harm the immediate environment, they destroy ozone, which is a different problem.
                        Destroying the ozone can cause drought pal. And why has the drought stopped? Countries like India and China are even more massively polluting than 15 or 25 years ago?
                        For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Fez
                          Destroying the ozone can cause drought pal.
                          What the hell are you talking about? Are you just making this stuff up as you go along?
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                          • #43
                            Because the SO2 pollution from China and India doesn't affect the North Atlantic, which you'd have learned IF YOU READ THE FRIGGAN' ARTICLE!!!!!!

                            Furthermore, while ozone destruction can cause diminshed plant growth, it does not cause drought.
                            Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by loinburger


                              What the hell are you talking about? Are you just making this stuff up as you go along?
                              Well first off it allows more radiation from the sun to enter. So quite spewing out stuff because you obviously do not know.

                              For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Fez
                                Well first off it allows more radiation from the sun to enter.
                                Increased radiation at the poles leads to drought at the equator? Interesting hypothesis...
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