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African Famine MAY Be Caused By 1st World Pollution

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  • #16
    First off, I would appreciate conservatives engaging in arguments with liberals without retorting to politically, trashy trolls.

    Secondly, Chegitz has not made the claim that the West deserves all the blame for the problem -- it is one of the factors that could be contributing towards the problem, along with the corruption of African governments.
    A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Carver
      Why is it that the right wingers can't debate the science without resorting to political trolls.
      I am not trolling, I was just saying that Chegitz is putting the blame completely (from what I see) on first world countries and that is wrong.

      MrFun, I have a right to say what I wish and you have no right to tell what is wrong or not.
      For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Fez
        MrFun, I have a right to say what I wish and you have no right to tell what is wrong or not.
        So you can say what you wish, but he can't?
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        • #19
          Originally posted by loinburger


          So you can say what you wish, but he can't?
          Maybe I should be a bit more clear... I don't care if runs through a neighborhood with a bunch of posters saying what his opinion his but he has no right to silence what I say and I am not telling him to be quiet about saying his opinion either.
          For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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          • #20
            Fez, no you weren't trolling. What you mentioned in Ecuador is the type of problem that might exist in parts of Africa.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Fez
              ...he has no right to silence what I say...
              There's a big difference between "silencing" you, and telling you that your opinion is wrong/irrelevant. Disagree all you want, but don't get on a high horse.
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              • #22
                Originally posted by Carver
                Why is it that the right wingers can't debate the science without resorting to political trolls.
                That really wasn't meant as a troll. More of a snide and somewhat amusing remark. The trolling is going on in my thread about the Dutch.

                The only "claim" was that the African famine MAY be caused by pollution.
                It also MAY be caused by fluffy puppy dogs. Both statements have the same validity given the current lack of hard evidence supporting each statement.
                I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Carver
                  Fez, no you weren't trolling. What you mentioned in Ecuador is the type of problem that might exist in parts of Africa.
                  Yes, and people draw conclusions by saying 1st world countries should be entirely to blame when they should not. Leaking fuel tanks is a major problem in 3rd world countries... leaking all types of nasty chemicals...

                  and telling you that your opinion is wrong/irrelevant.
                  When it apparently is not wrong or not irrelevant, in my opinion after all.
                  For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by David Floyd
                    It has far more to do with the corrupt, ignorant African governments than with the West, though.
                    Agree 100%. Africa needs to stop blaming the West for everything and get its own house in order.
                    "The Christian way has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found to be hard and left untried" - GK Chesterton.

                    "The most obvious predicition about the future is that it will be mostly like the past" - Alain de Botton

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                    • #25
                      Yes, I read an article on this as well... Apparently, pollution can alter global climate systems, and I don't see why the drought in Africa couldn't be related to this. I'm a little disappointed by the people who are not even considering that the two things could be somehow related, just because it doesn't agree with their world view.

                      And ofcourse, the famine in Africa is not only caused by this effect (assuming it is correct, for the moment), but by corruption, war, maleducation etc. as well. I don't think anybody will disagree on that.

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                      • #26
                        Obviously the only solution is to carpetbomb the 1st world so that the third world people will no longer be in famine. It's such a simple solution, why hasn't anyone thought of this?!
                        "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                        Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by DinoDoc
                          The only "claim" was that the African famine MAY be caused by pollution.

                          It also MAY be caused by fluffy puppy dogs. Both statements have the same validity given the current lack of hard evidence supporting each statement.
                          First of all, I'd like to point out that I stressed may because it's only a hypothesis supported by computer modeling.

                          Second, there is a infinately larger likelyhood that the famine was caused by pollution that fluffy puppy dogs, if only because the probablity and possibility of the latter is zero.

                          David Floyd, if it were true, you wouldn't have to give up anything because production of the suspect compunds has already been scaled down, hence the drop in African famines.

                          However, I find your statement hypocritical given your libertarian philosophy. You have no right to force your pollution on someone else. You are responsible for what that pollution does, and if you don't wish to change your lifestyle to get rid of that pollution, then you must pay compensation to the victims of your pollution.

                          Fez, it's clear that you either did not read the article or you did not understand it. Leaking fuel oil tanks would not produce the pollution that is under question in this article, i.e., sulfur-oxygen compounds which reduce sunlight leading to lowered evaporation of sea water leading to less rain clouds in the Sahel.


                          As for famine, I have long pointed out that famine is largely caused by political and economic, rather the meteorlogical problems. Famine is a problem not of production but of distribution. There is enough food to feed all the starving of the world, they simply lack the resources to obtain it. However, a drought can create a famine for people who were previously able to produce their own food.
                          Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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                          • #28
                            Fez, it's clear that you either did not read the article or you did not understand it. Leaking fuel oil tanks would not produce the pollution that is under question in this article, i.e., sulfur-oxygen compounds which reduce sunlight leading to lowered evaporation of sea water leading to less rain clouds in the Sahel.
                            If they leak CFCs yes they have all to do with this. So maybe you should read my posts.

                            As for famine, I have long pointed out that famine is largely caused by political and economic, rather the meteorlogical problems. Famine is a problem not of production but of distribution. There is enough food to feed all the starving of the world, they simply lack the resources to obtain it. However, a drought can create a famine for people who were previously able to produce their own food.
                            Argentina could feed the world or a large portion of it, if more attention is paid to its agricultural production. Finally they are exporting more and more... but I am talking a bit off topic here....

                            These countries simply cannot create enough food. They have to import the food from countries that can make food but they cannot pay for that therefore the population could starve. It is all a problem of production with some distribution irregularities. For example, Somalia, Militia Men Aideed did confisicate much of the food received for his personal army and you are right on that matter but it is mostly a production problem.
                            For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Fez
                              If they leak CFCs yes they have all to do with this. So maybe you should read my posts.
                              Since the article isn't talking about CFCs . . . Basic chemistry, kid. Sulfur Dioxide in not a ChloroFlouroCarbon.



                              edit: spelling and making the last sentence read better.
                              Last edited by chequita guevara; July 22, 2002, 15:20.
                              Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by chegitz guevara
                                Since the article isn't talking about CFCs . . . Basic chemistry, kid. ChloroFloroCarbons are not Sulfur Dioxide.
                                You can't force your chemistry on me!
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