Europeans to use EU flag as a flag icon...

[Stefu]

Still, while it's true that the Union represents somewhat of an improvement from a strictly Scandinavian point of view it does not outweight the Union is a huge step in the socialist direction for Europe as a whole. There is no accountability on the European level, the agricultural policies suck beyond belief - and won't be reformed any time soon despite all the hot air - the European appointment policies are a nationalistic disgrace (witness the amusing bickering over the next Eurobank head), the Union has displayed it has no respect whatsoever for election results going against the Social Democrat agenda (witness the horrifying litte freakshow they staged over the Austrian elections). And so on, ad infinitum.

In short, the EU, as implemented, combines French effeciency with Soviet respect for democracy and Scandinavian-style economic policies. I support the single market, but that's about it.

A European Union could be a good idea. This particular one isn't. We need to nip it in the bud, lest it devour us all.

While much of what you say is true, I'm still optimistic enough to think it could be reformed, especially considering that majority of EU-opponents would rather withdraw from EU wholesale, single market and all that.

[moomin]

Originally posted by Stefu
While much of what you say is true, I'm still optimistic enough to think it could be reformed, especially considering that majority of EU-opponents would rather withdraw from EU wholesale, single market and all that.

I was with you on this up till somwhere around two years ago. But I rather gave up on the Union. I see no indications of moving in the right direction and a lot of steps in what I believe is the wrong one. And the current round of enlagement will certainly not make reform easier.

Perhaps Finnish and Swedish anti-EU campaigners differ, because while commies and nazi scream to high heaven about the evils of the Union, I have yet to see anybody who wants to withdraw from EFTA. Do the Finnish EU opponents want to sever those ties as well? Given that you've already committed yourselves to the €, that would be... interesting.

[The Pioneer]

Originally posted by JohnIII

Ireland? You mean Ireland where they use Euros?

Nope.

[Stefu]

Perhaps Finnish and Swedish anti-EU campaigners differ, because while commies and nazi scream to high heaven about the evils of the Union, I have yet to see anybody who wants to withdraw from EFTA. Do the Finnish EU opponents want to sever those ties as well? Given that you've already committed yourselves to the €, that would be... interesting.

EFTA? Does EFTA still exist? Wasn't that the free trade area between Scandinavian countries and Britain and few others, which gradually became less and less important as EC and later EU gained force? Or do you mean ETA?

I actually don't know how commies and populists feel about ETA. There don't seem to be that many forces left that want complete withdrawal, as all the parties that mean anything agree that EU should at least exist and Finland be a member.

[JohnIII]

So you mean Northern Ireland. Please be a little more specific, because Ireland (Eire, Republic of Ireland, Southern Ireland, etc.) is not part of the UK.

[moomin]

Originally posted by Stefu
EFTA?

ETA, of course. Call it a brain-o.

all the parties that mean anything agree that EU should at least exist and Finland be a member.

There's another significant difference. While only commies and various neo- and semi-nazi groups propose outright withdrawal (along with the greens, interestingly enough) over here, every major party except moderaterna and folkpartiet harbour substantial anti-EU sentiments. The Social Democrats are divided somewhere around the 50/50 line, and most other parties actually have anti-EU majorities.

But I would also have to say that Finland's case for the EU is more clear-cut that Sweden's, given various circumstances.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Sprayber
You guys need to step it up because you aren't near as entertaining as the Canadians are when they fight. Where are Patikis and Provost when a guy wants to be entertained?

Happy to be of service...

[The Pioneer]

Originally posted by JohnIII
So you mean Northern Ireland. Please be a little more specific, because Ireland (Eire, Republic of Ireland, Southern Ireland, etc.) is not part of the UK.

Sorry, you are right. Of course I know that the Rep. of Ireland is not part of the UK. I work for a company that has its headquarters in Dublin, I should know!

[Ecthy]

Don't be such a wannabe, Frog.

[Pavlov]

Personally, I'm proud to be Swedish. Because, despite having a currency worth bugger all, a welfare crisis and a budgetdeficit the size of Göran Persson, we know. We know that we are the best, whatever happens.

Sure, we don't brag about it. "Oh, yes, those other people think they have it pretty sweet. Just wait 'til they realize we've always been better than them" we think to ourselves and chuckle.

[Ecthy]

What happened to your currency? It used to be 4 k = 1 DM.

[Pavlov]

Originally posted by Ecthelion
What happened to your currency? It used to be 4 k = 1 DM.

What happened? Dunno, I'm just a complaining teenager. What's the DM at now? 6 SEK? The bottomline is, the only countries we Swedes can visit without losing a fortune on exchanging money, are Turkey and Romania.

Also, we are bloody jealous of Norway. But don't say that to them.

[JohnIII]

That is my main reason for not wanting to join the Euro: the sense of superiority we gain from the pound.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by moominparatrooper

ETA, of course. Call it a brain-o.

I am center-right wing and Spanish... but I will tell you how I feel about them... I think they should all be executed.

Anyways back to the topic...

[Ramo]

There is no accountability on the European level, the agricultural policies suck beyond belief

I completely agree.

IIRC, EU farmers get something close to 30% of their income from subsidies.