Istanbul or Constantinople?

[Faeelin]

It's really comical watching pak. He could make a great case for byzantine culture (keeping the knowledge of the west alive in the dark ages, holding back islam as europe's first line of defense, the art and majesty of the mosaics and churches and so forth).

And classical greek? Well, even though the modern greeks aren't quite classical, it's pretty damn hard to argue with founding most of the concepts that western civilization relies upon.

But the arguements that he's resorted to are essentially namecalling.

YOUR BEST DEFENSE FOR THE BYZANTINE EMPIRE IS THE MOSAICS?

Manuel is rolling over in the grave the Turks never gave him.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Hehehe .

The Byzantine Empire was pretty nice though... but by the time the Turks got there it was a sick man, like the Ottomans would be in 1900.

[Faeelin]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Hehehe .

The Byzantine Empire was pretty nice though... but by the time the Turks got there it was a sick man, like the Ottomans would be in 1900.

Well, you know, the whole latin empire and backstabbing by western europe probably hurt them a bit.

[Shi Huangdi]

I'm not a muslim, but I still see them as my brothers in faith because we worship the same God. And how anyone can so degarde the accomplishments of Islamic civilization is beyond me. Islam contributed tremendous amounts to the world in architecture and science. It was Islam who continued western progress while the west was in the dark ages.

We have already seen racism and extreme-nationalism from pattycakes. Now we see religious bigotry? All of this goes to prove that pakitis is an extreme right-winger of the worst sort.

[Dan Severn]

But namecalling is fun- it increases one's self-esteem.

We all know how wonderful self-esteem is...

[Shi Huangdi]

Originally posted by Dan Severn
But namecalling is fun- it increases one's self-esteem.

We all know how wonderful self-esteem is...

'

Right, and pak can't get the self esteem the Turks get from being part of their great civilization.

[Dan Severn]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
'

Right, and pak can't get the self esteem the Turks get from being part of their great civilization.

Heh heh heh.

A Nazi by any other name would smell like feet.

[The Pioneer]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
I'm not a muslim, but I still see them as my brothers in faith because we worship the same God. And how anyone can so degarde the accomplishments of Islamic civilization is beyond me.

How is that if you'Re not muslim that you worship the same God?

Islam contributed tremendous amounts to the world in architecture and science. It was Islam who continued western progress while the west was in the dark ages.

You're right about that, there was a time when the muslims were much cleaner and more sophisticated (loved the arts, scientific, etc) than the filthy Christian European cultures.

But that does not diminish the fact that the Ottomans concquered the Byzantine Empire and by doing so looted, massacred and destroyed a lot. Now I do not hold it agianst them, like any previous empire that came to power, they did pretty much the same.

But the Byzantine empire fell only after some backstabbing from the Pope. And if you go farther back in history it was actually him that called for the crusades in which non-Orthodox Christians went to the Holy Land and used brute force against the more gentile and civilized Muslims. It was them that massacred and raped women, childern and old people. It was then that the Jihad was born and rightly so. After the filthy Europeans were unssucesfully done with their crusades they left a power vaccum and the muslims enraged. Byzantium you see gave- reluctantly I might add- some support to the Europeans and them being between the Holy Land and Europe were doomed. All pleas from the Orthodox church to the pope and Europe went unanswered and thus Byzantium fell at some point. It was only when the Great Ottoman Empire knocked on Vienna'S door that Europe awoke from it's sleep but it was too late for Byzantium by then. This is a very very short history on why IMHO Byzantium fell.

Now it goes without saying that Agia Sofia is a Byzantine structure unparalleled in his day and hundreds of years later still a very impressive structure. All the muslim "additions" and "alterations" are nothing but an insult to the original.

Farther, I'd like to add that unlike Turkey and many other countries on this planet Greec has never been the aggressor, it's true we fought our share of wars and they were plenty but we never invaded a foreign land. The opposite is the truth lots and lots of countries near and distant had always had an eye on us and we more or less were able to repell all of them (sometimes with the assistance of others and sometimes alone).

Another thing that I'd like to point out to some people (I am not sure if it was this thread thoug) is about Human Rights violation(s). We are not perfect but we do allow and give muslim minorities in Greece more rights than Turkey gives to its mionorities. We had a lot of muslim soldiers in the Greek Army, who couldn't even speak Greek, they had the same right as everybody else and were give the right to exercise their religious rights. None of us ever bothered or mocked them.

As to Etch before you start with your smart remarks please remember that you once, not that long ago, went aggressive in order to get your "Lebensraum" and in the process got something like 15 million killed. So you should better think of your past and the destructiveness that you have caused before you say something against a culture that has done you no harm and besides it brought you together with the Italians and the Turks some life in your cities and intersting tasty food in your daily lifes.

So long...

[Ecthy]

You're up early.

I'm still up, BTW, never went to bed.

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by Faeelin
It's really comical watching pak. He could make a great case for byzantine culture (keeping the knowledge of the west alive in the dark ages, holding back islam as europe's first line of defense, the art and majesty of the mosaics and churches and so forth).

And classical greek? Well, even though the modern greeks aren't quite classical, it's pretty damn hard to argue with founding most of the concepts that western civilization relies upon.

But the arguements that he's resorted to are essentially namecalling.

YOUR BEST DEFENSE FOR THE BYZANTINE EMPIRE IS THE MOSAICS?

Manuel is rolling over in the grave the Turks never gave him.

Quite appropriate if you think that the main question was wether white paint was better than the golden mosaics.


of course the obvious seems to be constantly out of your reach as you have demonstarted when calling ottoman turkey better than the age of enlightnment in Europe.

There is not much one can discuss with you and not keep laughing.


As for name calling i's called humour. Taliban don't really like art like white paint doesn't.

This seems to have escaped you too.


Oh well no big surpise


BTW you have developed into being a nice stalker of me. Must have been the wild pounding you received

get over it, you suck in reasoning ang argumentation.

[Bereta_Eder]

Shi, the only right winger here is you.

read my sig.

[Bereta_Eder]

imran: He just can't face how wonderful Turkey and it's civilization is/was.

_ I dont think it was something special. And it did do some huge destructions of really beautiful art. MOngol hordes do that most of the time


Shi:It was Islam who continued western progress while the west was in the dark ages.


Actually it was Byzantium.


Shi: We have already seen racism and extreme-nationalism from pattycakes. Now we see religious bigotry? All of this goes to prove that pakitis is an extreme right-winger of the worst sort.

Hardly. I have never made such comments. Actually I'm left wing and agnostic The one who is very biased against me or Greece is you. That's because I always kick your ass in the dirt.

As for national pride. I'm Greek. The best nationality to be. Richest culture biggest d!cks. Get over it.

[The Pioneer]

Originally posted by paiktis22
Actually I'm left wing ... ....

As for national pride. I'm Greek. The best nationality to be. Richest culture biggest d!cks. Get over it.

Although we do have soft areas.....

[Imran Siddiqui]

it's true we fought our share of wars and they were plenty but we never invaded a foreign land.

So you disown Alexander the Great when it suits you to?

As for name calling i's called humour.

You seem to be the only one laughing .

I dont think it was something special.

You wouldn't. And that statement in itself probably means they had something special because you don't think they did .

Actually it was Byzantium.

*cough*racist

One wonders why people point and look at newsmax when the best example of Nationalistic, right-wing pride is our own pattycakes. Joerg Haider would be proud.

[Dan Severn]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

So you disown Alexander the Great when it suits you to?

[

...A cloud of dust, and a hearty "Hi-Ho Bucephalus!"