Would seeing the sea part make you believe in God?

[Jack the Bodiless]

And your reason for believing that anybody actually saw this is...?

Just because a story says that thousands of people saw something, that doesn't mean that they did! Consider the battle between Zeus and Typhon (no, not Tyson: this dude was a fire-breathing giant with a hundred heads, Lewis would have been dead in seconds). Zeus chased Typhon down the Italian peninsula, then uprooted a mountain and buried Typhon with it, creating the volcano of Etna. Much of the population of Italy would have seen some of the action. So it was real, right?

If that is the case, then point out the Bible verse that says God encourages massacres, etc.

Are you serious???

You're making this FAR too easy. Check out Cruelty and Violence in the Bible.

Some highlights:

50. God orders the sons of Levi (Moses, Aaron, and the other members of their tribe that were "on the Lord's side") to kill "every man his neighbor." "And there fell of the people that day about 3000 men."

112. Under God's direction, Moses' army defeats the Midianites. They kill all the adult males, but take the women and children captive. When Moses learns that they left some live, he angrily says: "Have you saved all the women alive? Kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." So they went back and did as Moses (and presumably God) instructed, killing everyone except for the virgins. In this way they got 32,000 virgins -- Wow! [Even God gets some of the booty -- including the virgins].

117. God hardened the heart of the king of Heshbon and so that he could have him and all of his people killed.

118. At God's instructions, the Israelites "utterly destroyed the men, women, and the little ones" leaving "none to remain."

119. Again the Israelites kill everyone: "men, women, and children, of every city."

I could go on. And on, and on, and on...

[Robert]

Speer, justice and love are not opposite.
Speer, God is justice, but he's willing to take the punishmen himself.

[GeneralTacticus]

Unfortunately, God thought leaving the creation in the Bible was evidence enough. Unfortunately, some would diagree...

So you think that we should believe a theory which is scientifically bull**** solely because of a passage in a book a few thousand years old which was written by people who wouldn't know science if it bit them on the arse? Puh-leaze

Oh, and I suppose that you're one of those people who think that the world was created in 4004 BC, that the Flood occured as described in the Bible (covering the whole world), and that people should be forcibly circumcised?

And if you shape up evolution, it does appear to be a valid theory at first glance. Even second. If people struggle for years to understand it, there is no way some of these guys would...

Stop referring to yourself in third person. It confuses people.

The Muslim guys that blow themselves up do read their Korans and they do beleive that they go to heaven for being a "martyr" and killing innocents. Christians do not believe that.

Many Muslim theologists have stated that suicide bombing is wrong. I'm not trying to say Islam is better than Christianity; they're both equally bad. Any religion can be twisted to evil purposes, very easily in fact.

If that is the case, then point out the Bible verse that says God encourages massacres, etc.

Find me the Koran verse that says suicide bombing is acceptable. My point is that people have used Christianity as a justification for atrocities as much as or more than Islam.

Just be relaxed, you won't convert the poor bastards by telling them absolute things like that. Rather ask them questions about why they do believe in evolution without having any evidence.

They have no answer for that, that's pretty cool

Why do you believe in Christianity without evidence? Evolution does have evidence: there are, for example, fossils of hominids at varying stages of development, there were Darwin's observations on the Galapagos islands, and other examples too.

The damn Philistines deserves what was coming to them, and God didn't command the Hebrews to kill every Philistine in sight. Hey, God warned them that they would pay the price if they kept disobeying Him! God was just fulfilling the prophecy. Nothing more, nothing less.

God tells us to love our neighbors as ourselves. He doesn't want us killing each other!

Am I seeing things or do those two quotes contradict one another? You claim that Samson was right to kill the Philistines, yet at the same time that God doesn't want people killing each other.

[King of Rasslin]

God loves us, so he allows the people that don't believe in Him to live in their own little place called hell. He just gives them what they want- to be away from Him.

Jesus said that none of us should "throw the first stone" and he meant that none of us should judge other people because we have done bad things before too. So you should let God sort things out.

And Protestantism is so different from Muslims. We do not believe in what those guys do. And you know how different we are, I don't have to explain.

[Al B. Sure!]

Jack the Bodiless and Tacitus:

Yall shouldn't even bother... It's a shame... Rasslin seems too brain-washed and unable to form a logical arguement... some Christian fundamentalists have done researched and think before they speak and can be frustrating to debate with but this man is just a broken record going off...

[GeneralTacticus]

Those guys were terrorists. ANY Christian that reads his Bible knows that killing people is WRONG. Simple as that. The Muslims are a whole other story, though.

You excuse Christians for being terrorists while condemning Muslims for the same thing??

[Robert]

Jack, you can't take those stories out of the cultural context.
In those days you needed to destroy your enemies, otherwise they would destroy you.

You want to take your 21th century moral system, and project it millenia ago. What makes your moral standard to be the best one? Yours is the standard and system that makes most people commit suicide, most divorces, teenage pregnancies, houseless people, murders and rapers and all that.

And still you project 'our' moral system on the system God uses? How brave you are! *applause*

It's like a raper tells the judge that he is no good.

[Al B. Sure!]

And Protestantism is so different from Muslims. We do not believe in what those guys do. And you know how different we are, I don't have to explain.

No I don't know... please explain... I was only pointing out the similiar religious community structure (no heirarchy; a community of believers and priests)...


We should let God sort things out and not throw the first stone, eh? Do you consider it a sin to not believe in Christ? It must be, if justice has it that one must be punished because of this.


Rasslin reminds me of the people on Newsmax who called me (!) a satanist (WTF?!)

[Al B. Sure!]

CyberShy:

Watch it... Rasslin is placing his whatever time period American moral standard on Muslims...

[Stefu]

Both Waco and the Oklahoma city bombing were sparked by Christian convictions not in fact much different from your own

Tim McV. was an agnostic, IIRC.

[GeneralTacticus]

God loves us, so he allows the people that don't believe in Him to live in their own little place called hell. He just gives them what they want- to be away from Him.

Yeah, sure, it's real nice of god to send people he doesn't like to be tortured for all eternity . Was Satlin being nice when he sent those who opposed him to Gulag?

Jesus said that none of us should "throw the first stone" and he meant that none of us should judge other people because we have done bad things before too.

Isn't that exactly what you've just done??

So you should let God sort things out.

Why should I allow an entity that I don't believe exists to control my life?

And Protestantism is so different from Muslims. We do not believe in what those guys do. And you know how different we are, I don't have to explain.

You do actually. I can't see any difference between you and people like Bin Laden, except the name of your religion.

[King of Rasslin]

"So you think that we should believe a theory which is scientifically bull**** solely because of a passage in a book a few thousand years old which was written by people who wouldn't know science if it bit them on the arse? Puh-leaze

Oh, and I suppose that you're one of those people who think that the world was created in 4004 BC, that the Flood occured as described in the Bible (covering the whole world), and that people should be forcibly circumcised? "

Those guys 6000 years ago knew more than what you know. Back then, only the strong and smart survived. Look at the pyramids! They required an incredible knowledge of construction and architecture to be made. People were not idiots back then, and they didn't make stuff up. And if they did, it wouldn't be accepted by millions of people today.

Dates were measured differently then, so maybe the world isn't exactly 6000 years old. But it's somewhere in that area. And the Flood probably did cover the whole world. I mean, if God can flood the world, he can make the water go away too. No problem for Him. And circumcision if for cleanliness, not religious purposes. In Romans, we are told that what matters is the heart, not the physical body.

"Stop referring to yourself in third person. It confuses people. "

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to confuse you.

"Many Muslim theologists have stated that suicide bombing is wrong. I'm not trying to say Islam is better than Christianity; they're both equally bad. Any religion can be twisted to evil purposes, very easily in fact."

Nope. If the theologists did say that the bombings were wrong, people wouldn't do them. I have only seen encouragement from the Muslims to suicide bombers. It is very difficult to twist religion into evil purposes unless it relies on people, who all make mistakes, to make the rules. That is why we use the Bible, not fallible humans, to explain what God wants of us.

"Find me the Koran verse that says suicide bombing is acceptable. My point is that people have used Christianity as a justification for atrocities as much as or more than Islam."

I don't know Arabic, but I do know that Muslim priests do consider the suicide bombers to be martyrs and they go to heaven. That is enough to be considered encouragement. I would read the Koran if I knew the language. Christianity has never been an excuse to kill people. It is so clearly against what the Bible teaches. Although some might try to use Christianity as a shield for their wrongdoings, they know deep down inside that they are wrong.

"Why do you believe in Christianity without evidence? Evolution does have evidence: there are, for example, fossils of hominids at varying stages of development, there were Darwin's observations on the Galapagos islands, and other examples too."

Why do you believe science reports blindly? Isn't that the same as what you claim I do?

"Am I seeing things or do those two quotes contradict one another? You claim that Samson was right to kill the Philistines, yet at the same time that God doesn't want people killing each other."

God told them that they would be killed because of their sins, and they didn't listen. Fair and square. God tells us not to kill each other because we are idiots who would do that for no reason. Samson was just doing what God told him to do. God warned the Philistines and they ignored Him. He showed them that He wouldn't allow that.

[GeneralTacticus]

Jack, you can't take those stories out of the cultural context.
In those days you needed to destroy your enemies, otherwise they would destroy you.

We are refuting a specific claim that the Bible does not encourage violence and massacres. That has been conclusively demolished, move on to the next item.

You want to take your 21th century moral system, and project it millenia ago. What makes your moral standard to be the best one? Yours is the standard and system that makes most people commit suicide, most divorces, teenage pregnancies, houseless people, murders and rapers and all that.

So you'd prefer a moral code that resulted in periodic conquest and genocide, despotism, slavery, and not even the pretence of equal rights?

And still you project 'our' moral system on the system God uses? How brave you are! *applause*

Who is this God person anyway? I've never met him before.

It's like a raper tells the judge that he is no good.

It would be, if the judge could be reasonably assumed to exist.

[Robert]

Tacticus:

Oh, and I suppose that you're one of those people who think that the world was created in 4004 BC, that the Flood occured as described in the Bible (covering the whole world), and that people should be forcibly circumcised?

Oh, and I suppose that you're one of those people who think that the universe popped out of one particle that popped out of nothing, that live evolved from one microbe into all the diversity we have these days and the universe became what it is right now because of the big bang.

*gasp* simplistic way of debating.
I prefer to use valid arguments instead of this kind of arrogant crap mister Tacticus. I know you think you're better and wiser and more inteligent than we are. Now get to the point please. Mr Arrogant Agnost Atheist Whatever.

So you think that we should believe a theory which is scientifically bull**** solely because of a passage in a book a few thousand years old which was written by people who wouldn't know science if it bit them on the arse? Puh-lea

And what makes you believe science that much?
Don't you think that the scientific knowledge will be laughable in 200 years? They'll laugh at everyone who's still stucked in the stone age that were the 20th and 21th century.

Decades scientists have claimed that we humans started to exist 1 to 3 millions of years ago.
Now someone find one single incomplete skull, and suddenly all those theories are concidered wrong. What makes you think that the current theories will last for more than 50 decades?

What makes you believe that a scientist who claims a skull is 7 millinos year old is right? Who's going to check it? You believe him on his blue eyes, don't you?

they're both equally bad. Any religion can be twisted to evil purposes, very easily in fact.

Again such an ancient way of debating.
Christian people did bad things, thus christianity is bad.

Please don't make me start another 'MAO, Stalin, Ghengis Khan, Hitler, Kim' argument mister humanist atheist.

Why do you believe in Christianity without evidence? Evolution does have evidence: there are, for example, fossils of hominids at varying stages of development, there were Darwin's observations on the Galapagos islands, and other examples too.

the darwin's observations are as absolute as the flat earth theory. Darwin had no ideas about DNA and genetics. While the current theory is all about DNA and genetics. Only Darwin's concept 'everything from one organism' still stands, but the argumentation has completely changed.

And about christianity without evidence. You must be pretty lacking any form of news. Do you know what happened in 1948?

Did you ever really read and understand revelations and other prophecies in the bible that are currently being fullfilled?

And about your fossils, did you ever see them?
Or do you believe the scientists like we believe Moses?
In that case we can conclude that the scientists are the prophets of the modern time religion.

Those fossils are incomplete, how can you tell by looking at one single incomplete skull that humans were walking straight 7 millions years ago. Who's going to check them?

You believe them because you want to believe them.
They think humans walked straight millions of years ago because that's what they want to believe.

Evidence isn't objective. Science isn't objective.

You must be pretty short sighted to believe that science will ever come with any objective argument that we can not check. As long as we can't fly to the stars, we can't tell if those planets really exist.

And when we land on the moon, there is no dust.
Scientific theories most of the times have to completely changed compared to the facts.

I suggest those astronomes start focussing their brilliant brains on finding a way to cure cander instead of the bs waste of money they spend on finding extra planets with an athmosphere.

CyberShy

[King of Rasslin]

"Yeah, sure, it's real nice of god to send people he doesn't like to be tortured for all eternity . Was Satlin being nice when he sent those who opposed him to Gulag?"

Tortured for all eternity? The definition of hell is being separated from God, which really can be seen as torture. But not the physical torture you are imagining. Who is Satlin?

"Isn't that exactly what you've just done?? "

No, just the facts. If you don't believe in God, you go to hell.

"Why should I allow an entity that I don't believe exists to control my life?"

Because he made you and he wants you to serve Him as you should. You owe him everything, especially after He would give him son to save you. By the way, hundreds of people saw Jesus ascend. How can you deny that?

"You do actually. I can't see any difference between you and people like Bin Laden, except the name of your religion."

I'm beginning to wonder why I even argue with you, but... For one, we don't blow each other up. Christians are not terrorists. I don't like what you are saying.