Greatest empires of all time

[Sonic]

Heresson, that's why i supported Yugoslavia in Kosowo conflict.
BTW, in Vilnius only 52% of people are Lithuanian as recent census shown. So there are still some Polish there, but not a majority.

[Heresson]

What annoys me is that people know about German presence in western Poland but don't know about Polish presence in western Lithuania/Byelorussia/Ukraine.
There are some 20%Poles in Vilnius, but compared to before-the-war status that's a really small number.
I never claimed that Lithuanians are majority in Vilnius now,
but still they are majority in surrounding two regions, though some 60-70% only.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia
Europe's great strength actually lay in its fragmentation. With all those nations working against each other in a competitive but not destructive fashion, trade flourished and science progressed at a fast pace.

China, roughly double the land mass of Europe, was united under one bureaucracy, which had one single decision maker at its head for a long time. When that decision maker was good, then the country was in happy straits. When that decision maker turned out to be a poor ruler, then the country would suffer from his policies.

Fortunately today the Chinese political stage seems somewhat more detached (or should I say "aloof"?) than before. The most powerful force in Chinese society today is the burgeoning middle class and their purchasing power (for arguably the first time in recorded Chinese history...)

Acutally, if you think about it, this is a strong argument against the Chinese Empire. China too had a warring states periiod. During this period, progress was faster, etc. All this was brought to an end - both the wars and the progress - during the Empire. The China of 1900 looked and felt exactly like the China of 200 BC.

[Sonic]

Heresson, Lithuanians are also majority in Vilnius now. 52% is a majority.

[Heresson]

Oh sorry. I ment Poles not Lithuanians, sorry.
but Your sentence is incorrect too; This "also" is incorrect..

[OPD]

lol Britain by default/definition (which ever you like.)
Or should I say Great Britain after all thats how the word came to have its meaning.

No empire has ever ruled over as large a propoortion of the globe as Britain did at the turn of the centuary.

The US isn't so much a new empire as a new and revamped version of the British empire.

As for the future in 30 years or so the EU will be the dominant superpower or as soon as the UK gets its thumb out of its ass and gets more involved.

[Ned]

Yeah, but Britain, in its day, was largely a predominant seapower. Roma was both a land and a seapower. For nearly 1000 years, Roman arms were virtually unbeatable against any power, even those more advance: the Cartaginians and Macedonians, or more warlike, the Gauls.

Britain, on the other hand. lost to America and would have lost to Napolean but for the Prussians, and later to the Germans twice, but for the Americans.

But, as an American, I do admit that it planted it seed well.

[Kramerman]

I love rome. They were quite powerful, unfortunately their corruption and inefficiency led to their demise. They may or may not be the greatest empire ever, but they are my favorite and definately among the best ever.

As for the greatest civ (during its imperial time of the gilded age, it wasn't very powerful at all. ths is why i refer to it as a civ instead of a empire, though many argue they still practice imperialsim through globalization and such), all bias aside, i must say The United States of America has a great shot at becoming it. The US hasn't held the title the worlds only Superpower for nearly long enough to be considered it yet. But the US's accomplishments, from the great inventors of Thomas Edison, work of Einstein, powerful culture spread by mass media (hollywood, tv, internet), most powerful and advanced militray, fundamental economic strength (even when the markets are doing poorly), and with no end of all this insight, i say the US will become the greatest civ thus far. Even if the US came to an end tomarrow, its mark it has made in the world by spreading the ideas of freedom and democracy, and all of its accomplishments mentioned above, it would go down in history as one of the greatest, up there with China, Rome, Britain, etc.

Kman

EDIT: before anyone blows up - I AM NOT SAYING USA IS PERFECT. No civ has ever been perfect. But the US is still a work in progress, and is continuing to get stronger (though growing governmental inefficiencies are starting to worry me - to many billions are wasted by this each year) thatn it already is.

"The biggest tree always catches the most wind"

[Kramerman]

The China of 1900 looked and felt exactly like the China of 200 BC.

Its kinda the same thing for egypt. Thought they did indeed accomplished many things and had an amazing culture, their society made progress and change very slow. Ancient Egypt in its last days was little different than at the time of Kufu(SP?) and the construction of the great pyrimids- technilogically speaking, which to me is a major factor of a civs success.

[Verto]

Whats the definition of greatest empire? Size and power, or cultural and technological achievements?

France under Napoleon certainly meets the first part. On the other hand, it didn't last very long. The Soviet Union also had the square miles, as did the Third Reich, but were they great empires?

Well, anyway, I choose England, by which I mean Britain.

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

1) The United States is not an empire, the ONLY time it could have been considered an empire is immediately after WW2 when it occupied several areas in Europe and Japan. And as usual, it got rid of those territories as quickly as possible.

2)The Mongol empire was much more that Genghis Khan, his son continued to expand the empire after his death, and Genghis' grandson, Kublai Khan(Spelling?), was considered to be the greatest of the Mongol Emperors.

3)Typically, I refrain from making positive comments about my nation, (as there are far too many Americans throwing their egos around already) but the US does not want to be an empire.

After WW2 they were in excellent position to build a truly global empire. Their industry was at productivity peaks (from 1939 to the end of WW2 the US built more ships than ALL civilizations in Earth's history combined), the rest of the world was in shambles, Europe had destroyed its industry and cities in the war, and Japan was occupied and being set up under an American economic/political system.

Yet, America chose not to do this. For some reason the rest of the world doesn't seem to grasp the idea that America doesn't want an empire. We are perfectly happy with what we have and just want to get along with everyone else. The only reason there are American military bases throughout the world is that America wants to make sure another WW2 never happens again.

If you notice, after WW2 America came to the realization that it couldn't just sit back and stay out of other nation's business. Other nations would attack it anyway. So, ever since then, once a war is over America builds military bases and stations troops to insure that if that nation ever rises against it again it'll be ready.

Germany has several American military bases, as does Japan, Korea, Central America, and the Middle East. But while America's military gets the most attention, the biggest expense the US has is its intelligence gathering operations.

It does everything it can to gather and analyze info and data on everything it can think of. More countries are worried about the America's intelligence operations that their military.

Oh, and the primary reason English has become the second language of choice is because of America, not England (one of the things that really annoys the British). After WW2 the US needed to ship its supplies and personnel from continent to continent and so all of the naval and air transport facilites spoke English to communicate with the Americans. Now, America has become such a dominating market that English is dominant because its the language spoken by the most consumers.

Technically, the United States is an empire of 50 separate nationstates, as a state in the US is comparable to a nation in the rest of the world.

Remember, the US is the third largest country in the world in population (behind China and India) AND the third largest country in the world in size (behind Russia and Canada).

Now, please let me get back to my leaderheads.....

[Kramerman]

1) The United States is not an empire, the ONLY time it could have been considered an empire is immediately after WW2 when it occupied several areas in Europe and Japan. And as usual, it got rid of those territories as quickly as possible.

Im sorry, but this is incorrect.
During the late 1800s, there was an era known as the Gilded Age. It was during this period the US aquired much of our overseas assets; America Samoa, hawaii, Midway, etc. We also forced trade with Japan and China. This time culminated in the Spanish-American war when the main motive behind the war was to aquire Cuba, if not as a state then as a colony for sugar, coffe, and tobacco products. We were not an Empire in the same sense as other like Britain becaue we allowed those we controled to chose their own fate to some degree. Cuba did not want to be apart of the US, and after some political struggle they were granted 'independence' (they had something written into their constitution that they had to do something for the US, but i dont recall. Of course this all went out the window with the revolution and Castro's reign).
The US was an Empire, and in my US History book there was a chapter titled, 'The American Empire'. This time period was pretty insignificant in world history for the US though; the US remained behind many other nations in industry and wealth until the end of this era, where America bumped off France as second in industry (after Britian).

Kman

[Kramerman]

Originally posted by Verto
Whats the definition of greatest empire? Size and power, or cultural and technological achievements?

I interpreted it as a combonation of these. Which empire had the most of all these factors, and more? I say soon it will be the US.

Kman

[OPD]

Originally posted by Ned

Britain, on the other hand. lost to America and would have lost to Napolean but for the Prussians, and later to the Germans twice, but for the Americans.

wow "would have lost to the gremans twice"

IIRC the battle of Britain was over before the US joined the war.

This sort of thing pisses Brits off and is why we always kick up a fuss when hollywood makes historically inacurrate war films such as the one showing the US navy capturing an enigma code machine.

On the subject of US bases there are alot in the UK and are quite interesting places as everything at and surrounding these bases is americanised, even the local school systems ar based on the american school system.

[Faeelin]

Originally posted by Kramerman


Im sorry, but this is incorrect.
During the late 1800s, there was an era known as the Gilded Age. It was during this period the US aquired much of our overseas assets; America Samoa, hawaii, Midway, etc. We also forced trade with Japan and China. This time culminated in the Spanish-American war when the main motive behind the war was to aquire Cuba, if not as a state then as a colony for sugar, coffe, and tobacco products. We were not an Empire in the same sense as other like Britain becaue we allowed those we controled to chose their own fate to some degree. Cuba did not want to be apart of the US, and after some political struggle they were granted 'independence' (they had something written into their constitution that they had to do something for the US, but i dont recall. Of course this all went out the window with the revolution and Castro's reign).
The US was an Empire, and in my US History book there was a chapter titled, 'The American Empire'. This time period was pretty insignificant in world history for the US though; the US remained behind many other nations in industry and wealth until the end of this era, where America bumped off France as second in industry (after Britian).

Kman

I thought the USA became 2nd or third in industry in the 1880's, before surpassing the Brits in 1900, or thereabouts? I also thought we bumped off the germans in tersms of production.

We didn't force trade with China. Japan we did, yes (Hi, these are our new gunships. Care to trade?). But China did. Especially as Americans were the only major power who didn't try to carve them up.

The Spanish-American war was the first interest in history of our politics controlled by corporations. Basically, according to some theories, the war began because newspaper companies needed headlines.