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How to win the War on Terrorism

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  • Chris 62:

    Finally. Thank you.
    I wouldn't agree that I started the insult thing, but we'll put that behind us.
    Now for a summary of my views:

    I believe, like most people, that terrorism is wrong. This is more out of a selfish reason than anything else: I have no desire to be killed, without warning, in a violent event, and I don't think anyone else does. After all, morality is based on what society doesn't want to happen to itself.

    However, I don't think terrorism can be compared to an "evil empire" that consists of leaders, factories, munitions, funds from shadowy regimes, etc. Terrorism is a "force", a direct result of intense hatred. It is bred in an environment of anger and ignorance, resulting in people who do want to kill civilians to further their cause. It often arises when people have nothing to lose.

    Hence, while the leaders and masterminds of terrorist acts are obviously warped in their heads, I believe that the majority of actual perpetrators, be they suicide bombers, suicide pilots, suicide snipers, or a variety of other suiciders, are normal people like you and I. In fact, I firmly believe that had you or I been born into a society like that, we would have become what they have become.

    Thus, my conclusion? The war against terrorism, as it is so often labeled, is just one facet of a much wider struggle against terrorism. War may accomplish some goals: disrupt terrorist organizations and their bases, stop the immediate threat of terrorism. However, it is vastly not enough.

    Terrorism must be beaten at the core. The core is oppression, is ignorance, is extremism. This core can't be taken out by missiles or assassins. It can only be taken out by improving the lives of those living in oppressed, ignorant, extreme societies. Economic aid, a fairer foreign policy, removal of sanctions would all help. In fact, I would even go far enough to say that America should open its talks to all leaders, however extreme or autocratic they may be, as long as they are willing to reply sanely, as so many are now willing to. I mean countries like Saudi Arabia and even North Korea. Isolation and the "cutting off" of countries serve only to create more hatred, more oppression, more ignorance and more terrorism. You may think that this is being "soft", this is giving in, but the only alternative is much, much worse. Sometimes you have to pick the lesser of two evils.

    Thus, to summarize: Terrorism is a result of oppression, poverty and ignorance. Overt wars fought by soldiers will not destroy terrorism, it will only temporarily postpone it, as the very ground that created terrorism will create it anew. Isolation won't solve the problem either since it only creates more oppression, more poverty and more ignorance. The only ways are economic aid, removal of sanctions, and talks - not with bin Laden obviously, but with dictators who are still receptive, even if you are disgusted by the thought of it. You have to do it, no matter how soft you think it is. The only alternative is another 9/11 - and another - and even more to come.

    Do you want to step back a little, kill terrorism in its cradle, and in addition, improve the lives of millions of poor, embittered people? Or do you want terrorism to continue forever?
    Last edited by ranskaldan; July 16, 2002, 11:47.
    Poor silly humans. A temporarily stable pattern of matter and energy stumbles upon self-cognizance for a moment, and suddenly it thinks the whole universe was created for its benefit. -- mbelleroff

    Comment


    • Hosni a moderate?

      Compared to some he could be considered so, but it's interesting that he's been "elected" for 20 odd years now.


      How does being a dictator NOT equal moderate? You pointed out the King of Jordan. You realize that hiss state is as democratic as Egypt?

      Mubarak is the bullwalk against the Islamic fundys having power in Egypt. That is the same reason why Musharraf in Pakistan should also be supported.
      “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
      - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Chris 62
        The USA is fighting an all out war on terror factions.
        Care to define that "war" ? Absent a state of terroristan, it has to be a generous definition...

        Comment


        • Imran, he says what he is, Hosni hides behind a "president" title.

          Roland, in non-leagal English please.
          I believe Saddam because his position is backed up by logic and reason...David Floyd
          i'm an ignorant greek...MarkG

          Comment


          • ranskaldan,

            Sometimes you have to pick the lesser of two evils.
            I just want to point one little thing out, for the hell of it. Whenever the US has tried to "pick the lesser of two evils" we've been condemned for it. Our leaders figured the Shah of Iran, for instance, was the lesser of two evils (the other, greater evil being Soviet influence or the fundies who eventually took over anyway). The problem with accepting the "lesser of two evils" is that historical hindsight may show that you picked the wrong "evil."

            I think what Chris is trying to say is that we ought to stop trying to pick between evils. I'm not sure where we should draw the line, but conceptually I agree with him. I really wish we (and the rest of the Western world) would stop whoring ourselves to China because we want to sell them stuff (and yes, Che, that's my democratic/human rights morality, not my capitalist morality talking). I wish we'd stop pumping money and arms to ME dictators in exchange for "stability" so we can have our oil. I wish we had a foreign policy that was clear, consistent and principled.

            Let's just say I'm not holding my breath.

            -Arrian
            grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

            The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

            Comment


            • What do you mean by "war" ? What targets, what actions, what consequences under constitutional and international law...

              Or: Is this "war" like WWII, or "war" like "war on drugs".

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Arrian
                (and yes, Che, that's my democratic/human rights morality, not my capitalist morality talking).

                -Arrian


                Good, let's develop that moral/democratic side some more, shall we.
                Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

                Comment


                • Err, I don't think I've ever stated that I'd choose capitalism over democracy if that was the choice presented to me, Che. I prefer to have political freedom and economic freedom: a capitalistic representative democracy. I'm not against striving for more equality, so long as it's equality of opportunity (which I know damn well we have yet to achieve), not "give me money because you have it and I don't."

                  Don't make me out to be some sort of facist.

                  -Arrian
                  grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                  The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

                  Comment


                  • I'm just funin' ya.
                    Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

                    Comment


                    • Figured as much. You'd get along famously with one of my best friends. He's not quite a commie, but he ain't far off. We have some raging debates... which usually involve large amounts of whiskey. Makes for interesting quotes, if I could remember them.

                      -Arrian
                      grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                      The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

                      Comment


                      • Imran, he says what he is, Hosni hides behind a "president" title.


                        Since when does 'President' mean democracy ?

                        President means One who Presides Over... ie, a leader.
                        “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                        - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                        Comment


                        • Well Imran, you have a point, I always think of a president as being elected.

                          Besides, it does sound better then dictator for life.

                          Arrian is correct about my postion, BTW.

                          Your damned if you do, damned if you don't as far as terror and puplic opinion go in that area of the world.

                          Roland, war as in "If you try to kill us, we will kill you".
                          It doesn't get any simpler then that.
                          I believe Saddam because his position is backed up by logic and reason...David Floyd
                          i'm an ignorant greek...MarkG

                          Comment


                          • Well Imran, you have a point, I always think of a president as being elected.


                            Usually most do. I mean, living in America, it is only natural. But there have been plenty of Presidents in Africa and Latin America that have been anything but democratic.

                            And we do have a principled foreign policy. The principle is money is good .
                            “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                            - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                            Comment


                            • Well, sometimes it's good, sometimes it's an embarrisment.
                              I believe Saddam because his position is backed up by logic and reason...David Floyd
                              i'm an ignorant greek...MarkG

                              Comment


                              • "Roland, war as in "If you try to kill us, we will kill you".
                                It doesn't get any simpler then that."

                                I'll look for a declaration of war in the next gangland shooting.

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