Gimme That Old Time Religion

[Zevico]

Question for Lincoln: doesn't Paul declare the Old Testament redundant, so quoting it is a bit silly for Christians?

[Jack the Bodiless]

Technically, it is not possible for any society to legalize murder.

That's because murder is unlawful killing. If it's legal, it isn't murder.

Incidentally, that's why the Biblical "Thou Shalt Not Kill" is meaningless. It is a mistranslation of "Thou Shalt Not Murder", meaning that it's illegal to kill illegally.

[mindseye]

(deleted)

[Lincoln]

Originally posted by Zevico
Question for Lincoln: doesn't Paul declare the Old Testament redundant, so quoting it is a bit silly for Christians?

The old testament law was fulfilled by Jesus. His death represented a death to the old laws. Paul said that the old testament was to be used in a spiritual sense. For example the old testament refers to not "muzzling the ox that treads the corn." That means that people who work in mission work (for example) can reap some of the benefis of the work such as a free meal or whatever. The ox example had nothing to do with animals. The animal sacrifices were a type of the sacrifice that Jesus made that ended that practice once and for all. The marriage rights and other practices relating to conquered nations etc. are types of the relationsip between the church (or a false church called a 'whore') and Christ (or a false Christ).

The lessons in Proverbs have a great depth of spiritual meaning. The 'young man' who goes into a 'strange woman' for example is a type of a believer turning to another gospel and committing spiritual 'adultry'. This is born out in the book of James and elsewhere. The entire old testament is not a literal set of laws but rather a spiritual picture of the judgment of God and the mercy of God. Also it is clearly stated that some of the laws 'were not good'. The jews acted then as instruments of God's judgment on occassion. Christians are forbidden to act in that capacity now. The inquisition, Christian wars etc. were completely contrary to the teachings of Jesus.

The resurrection of Jesus brought forth and manifested the grace of God. Christians are supposed to be examples of that grace and mercy-- not of the judgment. The judgment comes by the hand of God himself in Revelation.

[Saint Marcus]

But that wasn't true christianity!

an eye for an eye

is also in the bible. capital punishment is accepted, and even required.

[Lincoln]

Capital punishment is an option of the civil government not the church. Even the Catholic church during the inquisition understood that. They tortured people but when it came time to kill them they turned them over to the civil authorities (which they had inderect or even direct control over anyway).

The eye for an eye thing was specifically addressed by Jesus. He said to love your neighbor not put out his eye.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Technically, it is not possible for any society to legalize murder.

Well good point . But, when I meant murder can somehow be moral, I was thinking of a hypothetical. Pretend that someone is friends with a person that wants to smuggle a nuclear weapon into Washington D.C. (you are in Ohio, lets say). He has the weapon and a truck with which to do it. He is dead set on doing it. As he gets into the truck to drive off, you, fearing for the safety of millions shoot and kill him. This isn't in self-defense because you wouldn't be hurt by the blast.

Legally its wrong. Morally, many people would assert, it is right.

Same thing with Hiroshima, it was murder, but morally justified because an invasion would cost many more lives.