Gimme That Old Time Religion

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by The diplomat
Oh my! Dont' tell me that you think Jesus chasing out money lenders with a whip and a boy practically beign whipped to death, are equivalent?

The two situations are completely different and in no way morally equivalent!

Ok, aren't Christians supposed to follow the example set by Jesus in their lives?

In this particular example, Jesus used a whip against men he considered evil-doers.

So, couldn't one logically assume it is perfectly Christian to use a whip against those one thinks is commiting evil acts?

[MikeH]

JohnIII: Of course.

[Jac de Molay]

Well, the Bible is full of examples of "do as I say, not as I do". That's pretty much par for the course.

Dave

[Orcus]

Originally posted by Sava
I'm still waiting for the brutal atheist stories.... oh yeah, we aren't crazy... DUH!

I could offer you some pretty brutal athiest stories from my own life, but I'm pretty sure I deserved it so it probably doesn't count.

Instead, I offer you the Unibomber. There's one in every crowd.

There is NO religion or philosophy so pure as to not have a psychopath amongst its followers. Not even your precious Athiesm. It is NOT the fault of the religion.

If it were, then I could go out and kill someone and say it's because I interpreted your words as meaning "go out and kill lots of people", would that be your fault? I think not.

[The diplomat]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


Ok, aren't Christians supposed to follow the example set by Jesus in their lives?

In this particular example, Jesus used a whip against men he considered evil-doers.

So, couldn't one logically assume it is perfectly Christian to use a whip against those one thinks is commiting evil acts?

I can't believe what I am reading here? Are you doing this on purpose just to taunt me, or are you actually that ignorant?

A) Jesus did not hold them down to the ground and beat them half to death, he simply whipped at them to make them leave.
B) They were grown men, not an 11 year old little boy.
C) The men were evil because they were desecrating God's Temple by using sacrifices to cheat people out their money, rob them, and take advantage of them.
D) this boy was simply misbehaving a little bit. He was doing nothing like what the moeny changers were doing. The boy was not an evil-doer!

These are just 4 obvious differences between the 2 situations. No one in their right mind would ever assume from what Jesus did that it was ok to beat a little boy with a branch!

[MikeH]

C) The men were evil because they were desecrating God's Temple by using sacrifices to cheat people out their money, rob them, and take advantage of them.

What's the difference between that, TV evangelists and the catholic church?

[Orcus]

Originally posted by MikeH What's the difference between that, TV evangelists and the catholic church?

Very little, actually...but these people you mention don't represent Christianity very well IMO, though I'm sure they'd disagree with me. A church asking for money is not wrong, I see no problem with saying "We need new plumbing, can any of you who use this place lend a hand?" The difference is, are they using the money for the church or for themselves?

If Jesus were flesh today, I'm sure he'd chase televangelists around with a whip too.

[The diplomat]

Originally posted by MikeH


What's the difference between that, TV evangelists and the catholic church?

None. The TV evangelists and Catholics who use God's word to extort money from people are the modern day equivalent of the money lenders in Jesus' day.

I am convinced that if Jesus were on Earth today, He would probably react in a similar way.

[Heresson]

Aren't catholics christians, dimpolat?
Anyway at this time somehow those that later became protestants didn't protest. Ergo; they are to be blamed too.
Eastern christianity took thier part too. But, generally, christians aren't to be blamed, as it was only a 450-year-late answer to Muslim Holy War. It's really strange that crusades started that late.

[The diplomat]

Originally posted by Heresson
Aren't catholics christians, diplomat?

I was referring to the Roman Catholic priests in the Middle Ages who would promise to forvige someone's sins in exchange for a monetary contribution. They were clearly extorting money from believers who did not know that they were being cheated, because they were not allowed to read the Bible for themselves.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by The diplomat
I can't believe what I am reading here? Are you doing this on purpose just to taunt me, or are you actually that ignorant?

Duh, gee, I dunno...

A) Jesus did not hold them down to the ground and beat them half to death, he simply whipped at them to make them leave.

I guess he was just too slow to catch them...

So I can go whipping people to get out of places where I don't want them...okay, check!

B) They were grown men, not an 11 year old little boy.

Spare the rod, spoil the child...

C) The men were evil because they were desecrating God's Temple by using sacrifices to cheat people out their money, rob them, and take advantage of them.

I'm gonna find Oral Roberts and kick him in the keester!

D) this boy was simply misbehaving a little bit. He was doing nothing like what the moeny changers were doing. The boy was not an evil-doer!

I dunno, he could have been doing evil. What if the caught him ripping the wings off flies or abusing kittens?

No one in their right mind would ever assume from what Jesus did that it was ok to beat a little boy with a branch!

But it's ok to beat moneylenders in a religious place. That's better...I guess...

[Jack the Bodiless]

According to the Bible, kids who insult their parents should be put to death.

We don't know if this kid insulted his parents or not, just that he "did not take his Bible verses seriously enough". Maybe they let him live because he didn't get around to blaming his parents for making him do Bible studies?

[The diplomat]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
So I can go whipping people to get out of places where I don't want them...okay, check!

No you can't, you are not God! Jesus could because He is God. He went to those forceful measures because God's place of worship must be kept holy!

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
I dunno, he could have been doing evil. What if the caught him ripping the wings off flies or abusing kittens?

I would hope that a sensible person would realize that as wrong as it is to abuse animals, it would still not justify whipping a little kid with a branch.

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
But it's ok to beat moneylenders in a religious place. That's better...I guess...

Again, Jesus had the right to, because He is God!

[Boris Godunov]

Jesus was God in Human form, if I understand Christian dogma correctly, and ergo just as human as the rest of us. How can he claim to have been human to save us if he had special entitlements?

But I've always been told we should follow Jesus's example. In this example, he whipped people. Ergo whipping people is a-ok for Christians. Seems pretty simple to me...

[The diplomat]

Originally posted by Jack the Bodiless
According to the Bible, kids who insult their parents should be put to death.

"If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother, and his blood will be on his own head." Leviticus 20:9

It says curse not insult. There is a huge difference!