Africa, does anybody still care?

[Carver]

Originally posted by nationalist
Africa would probably be better off if it was still divided amongst the Imperial powers.

Yeah, during Belgium's control of the DR Congo only half the population was killed.

[nationalist]

Not saying that they did. However, I don't think that modern imperialism would resemble Heart of Darkness. Africa needs help developing basic political systems. They need political cultures that aren't based on ethnicity or military force. It doesn't appear that the current system is working, nor does it appear to be improving. Maybe it is time for a change of the system. Why would it be such a bad idea for the multitude of failing states to give up their sovereignty to an established power for a period? That power could help modernize the territory and diffuse ethnic politics. Slowly, the states would gain more and more self rule until they were completely self governing. It could use the story of Canadian independance as a model. The problem is that this would be incredibly expensive. No western nation would want to do this.

[Tingkai]

Your basic concept is right, but it would not require African nations to give up soverignty. We could set up a system based on the Canadian model, as you suggested, where a final court of appeal would be operated by an international agency. Laws could also be subject to approval by an international agency that would only have the power to veto bills that are unconstitutional.

The problem with this theory is not the cost, but the fact that no one would be willing to allow outsiders to have this kind of power.

[Verto]

Originally posted by Kamrat X
Solution to the african problem (IMHO):

3) The foreign debt of African countries must be dropped. There can be no economic progress in Africa if they have to pay obscene amounts of money to already wealthy countries in the north.

I don't know what you mean by wealthy countries of the north, but President Clinton( to Democrats) - I believe - forgave all countries the debt they owed to the US(monetary, not the debt owed because of our countless sacrifices

It is my personal opinion that the United States shouldn't intervene in a different country, or continent's, affairs - which was the opinion of many of the Founding Fathers. What would have happened if all of Europe decided that they needed to end the conflict in North America? You wouldn't have this Great Republic

I, of course, am not going to tell any other country or government, etc, how to go about its business, because it is not my place to tell others how to run their nations. Maybe some of your Europeans should try doing the same...

[faded glory]

Whats this crap wealthy countries supposed to fit the bill for poor countries. In america, we have alot of people dont have health insurance. We have alot of people who cant get AIDS medicine of there own. In america, we have taxpayers who are pissed off about the government taking 40% of there income. America is NOT a free clinic. I dont want my money going to the corrupt regime in Nigeria. Screw that.


Anyone looking to Uganda for success? I wouldnt. They killed all the homosexuals,drug users and HIV postive people. If you want to call that success, I guess you can.

[Verto]

I agree. America is not a free clinic, and should not become the welfare state for the world. We've already moved to far in the direction of socialism as it is...

[Tingkai]

The US should provide development aid to third world nations for its own self-interest.

As countries become economically developed, new markets are created for American companies. Just look at how Asia has benefited the US in terms of trade.

A second factor is that the more a country develops economically, the more stable it becomes. Such countries then become less of a threat to the security of the United States and other developed countries.

Besides, there is also the basic moral concept of helping others who need help. If people are starving then we have a moral imperative to help these people.

[Verto]

I don't know...moral imperative...that might offend atheists, and we can't have that.

[faded glory]

A canadian telling me I should distribute my money to the 4 corners of the earth? I think that Sucks. But oh well, the sun will come up in the morning. I guess I should Get on with it, like any good Klingon would.

[Sikander]

Re: Re: Re: Africa, does anybody still care?

Originally posted by Carver

I enjoyed your post but racism? What racism has Mugabe demostrated? There is a lot of land in Zimbabwe which has been stolen from its proper owners, Mugabe is returning that land, he is enforcing private property rights - which is what a government is supposed to do in a capitalist system. Excuse me but many whites are very quick to yell racism when the shoe is on the other foot.

Isn't ignoring black racism against whites just another form of racism? We can't just go back and forth forever cutting slack for whoever our current racists are because they themselves were also victimized by racism. We'll never see an end to it that way.

If you want to see both points of view argued ad nauseum, look for one of the many threads on affirmative action (or AA) which have been started in the last month or two. I'd rather not jack the thread any further.

[August Borms]

Originally posted by Carver


Yeah, during Belgium's control of the DR Congo only half the population was killed.

This happened before Belgium controlled the Congo.

[faded glory]

"which is what a government is supposed to do in a capitalist system. Excuse me but many whites are very quick to yell racism when the shoe is on the other foot. "


Excuse me????? It is Racism and its also poor economics. Mugabe handed over otherwise prosperous farms to Mobs and veterans of the war. The farms, were Burned and most had no idea how to even farm so they went to hell. This is evident, in that 1/4 of Zimbabwe's population is now facing starvation. Whereas 3 years earlier, the country appeared to be atleast stable. You can have your fifteen minute's of Revolutionary Glory, but when the population starts starving again. Why is it always the greedy, Racist Western capitalists who feed and cloth these pathetic droves of people.

Africa is hopeless.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by faded glory
Excuse me????? It is Racism and its also poor economics. Mugabe handed over otherwise prosperous farms to Mobs and veterans of the war. The farms, were Burned and most had no idea how to even farm so they went to hell.
Africa is hopeless.

A majority of the farm land is still owned by white landowners, although with Mugabe, that is changing quickly as whites are driven off their land.

To say that Africa is hopeless shows a complete ignorance of the continent. There are many countries that are developing and that have decent governments. There are also basketcases caused by age-old wars. Lumping everything together is completely wrong.

[faded glory]

"A majority of the farm land is still owned by white landowners, although with Mugabe, that is changing quickly as whites are driven off their land. "

This is NOT a good thing. Why anyone would hand over farmland which belongs to farmers to Mobs owed a political favor who have never farmed in there life. this is a great way to make the famine worse you know. Again, we have to come in and feed these people. The UN.


"To say that Africa is hopeless shows a complete ignorance of the continent. There are many countries that are developing and that have decent governments. There are also basketcases caused by age-old wars. Lumping everything together is completely wrong."

Name one stable Sub-Saharan African nation. One that is a role model. One that doesnt have a 20% crime rate or that hasnt had a Civil war in the last decade. C'mon, go ahead almighty Tingkai. I leave where are these "Decent governments". I guess south africa is ok, if you dont mind being Mugged at gunpoint once you get off the plane, and again in the Taxi, and on the street after you get kicked out of the taxi.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by faded glory
A canadian telling me I should distribute my money to the 4 corners of the earth? I think that Sucks.

Yet more brilliance from FG. Instead of dealing with the message, he attacks the messenger.