Is Communism effectively dead?

[Kropotkin]

Well, I thought it was time for some discreet name-dropping.

[DinoDoc]

I'm glad that someone finally went and said that Communism is a religion.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by faded glory
The link I provided proves this is a blatant lie and that you sir, are full of hot air on the issue.

Do you know what the words "blatant" and "lie" even mean? When you call me a blatant liar, you engage in libel, sir. It is an undeserved insult, and since I have refrained from insulting you for a very long time, you could at least extend me the same courtesy.

Second, it seems to me that you didn't read the link you posted very carefully. While it is true the Soviets did extend a limited amount of aid to certain Angolan forces it says nothing about Menghistu and Ethiopia. It also, frequently, said, the USSR was very reluctant to aid African insurgencies. If it weren't for Cuba pushing so hard, it's doubtful the USSR would have gotten involved at all. Even then, it was only to save the Soviet-Cuban relationship, as Castro had shown once before he was willing to break with the Soviets.

Now, considering the monster that Savimbi was, and how many lives he cost Angola (1.5 million) before he got his well deserved bullet, it was a good thing the Cubans intervened in Angola. Again, read Stockwell. The guy who ran the CIA program in Angola. He knows a heck of a lot more about it than either you or I (though I base what I know on hi,).

[Kropotkin]

Religion is a dream for meaning, communism is a dream for a better world.

Communism in theory isn't a religion but it has worked out like that in most cases. Theories don't work in real life. Even Homer J. Simpson knows that.

[chequita guevara]

bounce

[chequita guevara]

bump

[DinoDoc]

Would you care to comment on if communism is a religion?

[chequita guevara]

Not really, but I guess I will.

Religions all posit a reality which cannot be known by the senses alone. Communism does not. Communism is an atheist, materialist philosophy.

Communists share some characteristics with the religious, i.e., there's definately an aspect of faith in supporting a system that hasn't gotten it right in 150 years of trying (more if you consider the Utopian communists). Sure, I can state with exactitude what caused the failure of previous attempts, but knowing why something failed is not the same as having proof that it can succeed. That it should theoretically work doesn't mean diddly until it does work.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Not really,

I get it. You just want to torture fg some more.

[Stefu]

State socialism maybe, but certainly not communism in its real sense.

Would you say, then, that what US practises when it overthrow foreign countries and whatnot isn't capitalism in it's real sense?

Also, some might say there's something not quite jiggly between your statements on "Communism doesn't come to power by voting" and then listing countries, apparently disapprovingly, where US-friendly regimes didn't come to power by voting.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
I get it. You just want to torture fg some more.

Bingo!

[Al B. Sure!]

Actually, Chegitz...

Trujillo WAS killed by CIA-supplied Dominican conservatives:

Despite the failures of the more radical Dominicans to unseat Trujillo, the Dictator in the 1950's began losing support from his traditional allies including , the Catholic Church, the US government, and members of the Dominican elite. In 1960 the SIM accused five Catholic priests of conspiracy and bomb making with the Anti-Trujillo movement. Three of the priests were deported and the Catholic Church protested by sending a pastoral letter to the dictator calling on Trujillo to halt the "excesses, dry the tears, heal the wounds." The once supportive Catholic Church now clearly demanded human rights from the Trujillo regime. Although Trujillo still had supporters in Washington, a number of people in the Eisenhower administration feared that Trujillo's iron hand was leading to a radicalization of the Dominican rebels. Relations between the US government and the dictator were further strained when Trujillo agents attempted unsuccessfully to kill Venezuelan president Bentancourt with a bomb. The US feared that the Dominican Republic would follow the revolutionary model of Fidel Castro's Cuba and so the US's CIA began contacts with more conservative Dominicans who opposed Trujillo. CIA agents made contact with once loyal Trujillistas who were now plotting an assassination of the dictator. The assassins were wealthy Dominicans who had personal grudges against the dictator, or who had family members who had suffered at the hands of the SIM. The conspirators even included several relatives of Trujillo and high ranking political and military officials. The CIA without wanting to appear involved with this group secretly supplied several carbine rifles for the assassins to slay Trujillo, and they promised US support for the new regime once the dictator was dead.

On May 30th, 1961 the conspirators assassinated Rafael Trujillo, by firing into the dictator's car on a deserted patch of highway. The Dictator was dead. However, the coup attempt was not succesful. The assassins went into hiding as Ramfis Trujillo, the dictator's son, assumed control of the Dominican Republic the following day. The following month almost all of the assassins were rounded up along with their families and friends. All were tortured and several committed suicide. In October, street riots broke out in Ciudad Trujillo and workers went on strike financed by the anti Trujillist National Civic Union. On November 18, 1961 the six remaining Trujillo assassins were taken to Ramfi Trujillo's hacienda where they were tied to trees, shot, cut up and fed to sharks at a nearby beach. The following day Ramfi Trujillo fled the Dominican Republic under US military guard while the US Atlantic fleet arrived in Santo Domingo's harbor

thanks

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Stefu
Would you say, then, that what US practises when it overthrow foreign countries and whatnot isn't capitalism in it's real sense?

While this isn't directed at me, I'll take up the cudgel. No, I would not say that it isn't capitalism. I would say preceisely the opposite, that the government is doing the capitalists bidding (disposing of a government which is making Amerian capitalists unhappy).

Also, some might say there's something not quite jiggly between your statements on "Communism doesn't come to power by voting" and then listing countries, apparently disapprovingly, where US-friendly regimes didn't come to power by voting.

The point there was that when people tried to institute socialism, communism, or, most often, welfare state capitalism by voting, the US overthrew them. That's not that hard to fgure out, Stefu.

[chequita guevara]

So in other words, Speer, I was right.

Speer, the US Marine's did not kill Trujillo. He fell from power and was replaced with a left-leaning democracy. It was this new government which was invaded and overthrown by the Marines in 1965.