Good atheists go to heaven. Bad Christians do not.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
They're afraid of their own mortality, that's all. It's hard to accept the possibility of one ending completely with one's own death, and faith helps them believe that won't happen. Kind of arrogant, I think, but totally understandable.

I would be completely fine with the end of my own existence.

I believe in Christ becuase that is what I have been led to beleive based upon reason and expereince.

It just happens that Christianity has an afterlife, I would be fine believing in Christianity without the afterlife (with the belief that God would not want his ruined creation to live forever with him or something like that)

Jon Miller

[Boris Godunov]

I will take it that my points are so brilliant and irrefutable that no one dares comment. Thank you.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

Originally posted by Apocalypse

They can define lover however they think is correct, but it basically has to involve caring about something. Some are unable to do even that.

Now if only I had a Bible with an index that could point me to some scriptures where it talks about disabilities. Anyone up for it?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
I believe in Christ becuase that is what I have been led to beleive based upon reason and expereince.

Explain this to me.

What reasoning is there behind the existence of Christ? That doesn't make any sense from a reasoning POV.

Experience? You believe in Christ from experience, so you've met him? You've seen him?

[Sava]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
I will take it that my points are so brilliant and irrefutable that no one dares comment. Thank you.

They are, I love you (in a plutonic, non-sexual kind of way)

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Asher

Jon, everything is logical once you twist the hell out of it and install beliefs into people when they're children...

No, you can look at things with reason and come up with what is logical and what is not. Yes, we do have faulty logic at times (man does) but that is all you have to deal with.

And I think that many things that my parents and pastors say are illogical.

Yes, beliefs are put into children, but people have the freedom to change and grow as they grow older. Or do you not beleive in free will.

Jon Miller

[Boris Godunov]

Jon Miller:

My experience is that most people are more afraid of their mortality than they dare admit or even acknowledge to themselves. Think about oblivion for a bit while you're lying in bed at night. It doesn't make for light bedtime thinking, I promise you.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Jon Miller


No, you can look at things with reason and come up with what is logical and what is not. Yes, we do have faulty logic at times (man does) but that is all you have to deal with.

And I think that many things that my parents and pastors say are illogical.

Yes, beliefs are put into children, but people have the freedom to change and grow as they grow older. Or do you not beleive in free will.

Jon Miller

(cough) suicide bombers (cough) 9-11 (cough)...

never underestimate the power of ignorance...

[Boris Godunov]

Considering there isn't a shred of reliable evidence that Jesus even existed, I'd find it hard to say your faith in Christianity is based on reason.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Sava
I'm sorry if people misinterpreted me. I did not personally call anybody stupid. I stated that "I believed" certain groups were ignorant because they believed in things that weren't true. But for the sake of civility I will refrain from further statements.

Could you please clarify the rules for me so that I do not make such an error in the future. Which statement would be against the rules?

"If you(directed at a member) believe 2+2=5 then you are stupid"

"People who believe 2+2=5 are stupid"

If they are both against the rules, can I replace "stupid" with "wrong"?

I think there was NO room for misinterpretation in your statement against people that believe in religion. And while you didn't target a specific member, you just slammed a decent percentage of the members here.
(obvious from the number of complaints I received in such short order) And, you will refrain from such statements because you will be suspended if you don't.

Again... since you don't seem to understand.

It is ok to disagree... It is ok to say something is illogical... It is ok to say that there is no proof so you don't believe... It is ok to say people are wrong.

It is NOT ok to insult them. Is that clear enough of for you.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

Originally posted by Asher

Explain this to me.

What reasoning is there behind the existence of Christ? That doesn't make any sense from a reasoning POV.

Experience? You believe in Christ from experience, so you've met him? You've seen him?

I haven't met him, but I will someday. I do KNOW him, however.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Asher

Explain this to me.

What reasoning is there behind the existence of Christ? That doesn't make any sense from a reasoning POV.

Experience? You believe in Christ from experience, so you've met him? You've seen him?

I have expereinced him in my life and know others that do so also. My belief in Christianity is logical as far as my logic takes me.

While I admit that there are other beliefs that are also logical, that fact that mine is is enough to make it reasonable to believe in the manner that I do. Beyond there it is expereince, faith, and other intagible things.

Jon Miller

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
How do you know. if they are unable to do that now, that they were always unable to do that and will always be unable to do that.

You are not being very logical here.

Just because someone loved something in the past does not make up for not be able to love in the present. I myself have not loved anything or anyone for years. I want to, but I am unable to for reasons beyond my control.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Considering there isn't a shred of reliable evidence that Jesus even existed, I'd find it hard to say your faith in Christianity is based on reason.

But is there any evidence that he did not exist??

And there is evidence of his existence, the Bible.

Jon Miller

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Considering there isn't a shred of reliable evidence that Jesus even existed, I'd find it hard to say your faith in Christianity is based on reason.

There is a huge amount of evidence he existed, including many reports by Romans around that time. There just isn't reliable evidence that he did anything mericulous.