Europeans Voters Turn Against Left

[Solly]

RJ,

The thankful swing to the right in Britain is evidenced by that Labour can now only get to power with a centrist stance, one that some would even describe as centre-right.

[red_jon]

Originally posted by Zealot
Excuse me but when you say "Well it has to be remembered that the American Democrats would be the equivalent of a right-wing party in Europe.", even if you were being sarcastic, in where would you position the Republicans? Far right?

We can't possibly consider your sentence as logically true!

Republicans? Yes, they would be considered far right (though hardly on the same wavelength as Fascists). The Democrats would be considered moderate right or centre-right.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Plus their checks and balances are so effective that their government has had 226 years of stalemate...

Which has lead to this country becoming a superpower very rapidly . Which also happens to be a good thing. We Americans don't like our government to try to do too much. Stalemate is good, that was the government can't get more things done that make it intrude into our lives.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by Boddington's
RJ,

The thankful swing to the right in Britain is evidenced by that Labour can now only get to power with a centrist stance, one that some would even describe as centre-right.

Look up "Thatcher" then try convincing me that British politics have shifted to the right.

[chequita guevara]

One of the things that you need to remember is that the "Left" has virtually abandoned its base and its politics during this same period, so that when voters voted for a "Left" alternative, they got merely the same right-wing politics the other side had been preaching. When a party abandons its base, its base will abandon it at the polls. Or more simply, you cannot defeat the Republicans by becoming the Republicans.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Or more simply, you cannot defeat the Republicans by becoming the Republicans.

Bill Clinton did .

[Ned]

Originally posted by Ron Jeremy
Nice overlooking of the preceding 100 years of social and liberal tradition there, Ned....

Perhaps, Ron, the rise to power of the facists was a reaction to the victory of the left, particularly the communists in Russia.

In other words, the left - right swing of the political pendulum in Europe became extremely dramatic in first half of the twentieth century. That pendulum still swings, but to less extremes than 50 years ago. However the degree of the pendulum's swing was far greater in Europe than in the United States during the same period. I attribute that to the success of the communists and facists in actually gaining power in Europe.

Socialists have had the upper hand in most of Europe since WWII. This seems to be a direct result of discrediting the right as a result of that war. Rightist thinking has been largely "unthinkable" in Europe.

But as time goes on, the right seems to be making a real comeback. The fact that Thatcher actually gained power in the UK has moved the center of UK politics to the right, so that today, the UK, even lead by Labour, is more conservative that the rest of Europe.

[Bereta_Eder]

hmmm dunno if europe is shuning the left..


actually i find this turn to the rightwing very encouraging.

it will only take 4 years and then...

the left will be better equipped and reformed to take again the reigns for another decade or so
the europeans will have become nausiated by the right and the left wing's victory will be even more easier


one problem though: what's the difference (economically speaking)

[Bereta_Eder]

besides europe's long social welfare tradition (how ever modest it is it is huge compared to the US) will simply not go away.

nor will the ideology of the left which is again unique compared to the US politics.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by Ned


Socialists have had the upper hand in most of Europe since WWII. This seems to be a direct result of discrediting the right as a result of that war. Rightist thinking has been largely "unthinkable" in Europe.

But as time goes on, the right seems to be making a real comeback. The fact that Thatcher actually gained power in the UK has moved the center of UK politics to the right, so that today, the UK, even lead by Labour, is more conservative that the rest of Europe.

I can't claim to be an expert on cross-European political history, but saying that socialism has had the upper hand in Europe since WW2 isn't true of Britain, and unless my memory deceives me it isn't true of France either.

And- as my earlier post pointed out, Thatcherism did not shift the British political spectrum to the right. It was rejected in favour of politics remarkably similar the the pre-Thatcher era. Labour has headed right, but the two other major political parties (the Liberals and Tories) have both headed left.

[Bereta_Eder]

for many many years after WW2 in most european countries the right wing was in power constantly, heavily sponsored by the US by both legal and illegal means.

Greece's first left wing government was in the '80s for example (and has been in power ever since with a small exception of 3 years)

[DaShi]

No one answered my corntree question.

[Roland]

Imran:

"We Americans don't like our government to try to do too much. Stalemate is good, that was the government can't get more things done that make it intrude into our lives."

Only that it doesn't work that way any longer. Instead of proposal X simply going to the dustbin, you get half of proposal X plus a load of pork. And the vast majority of dems and reps have yet to find a police state measure they didn't like.

Ned:

"Socialists have had the upper hand in most of Europe since WWII."

Please, before you try ro make some conclusions, get some reasing on the facts. Apart from distinctions between socialists and social democrats, the facts don't support this "upper hand" theory - let's just look at the 5 biggest countries:

Britain had permamnent changes (dont know the years by heart), but the longest party rule was conservative: 1979-1997.

Germany:
Cons 1949-1966
Cons/Soc 1966-1969
Soc/Lib 1969-1982
Cons/Lib 1982-1998
Soc/Green 1998-

France had some murky coalitions in the IVth republic; then from 1958-1981 they had a cons president, 1981-1995 a socialist, and 1995-2007 at least a cons again.

In Italy, the communists were in opposition until the early 90s, and the "socialists" especially under Craxi were a junior partner in the various DC governments.

Spain was Franco's fascist toyland into the 1970s. Then you had a cons governemnt, and the soc from 1982-1997 IIRC, now cons again.

[Tolls]

Roland:
For the UK since '45 -

45 - 51 : Labour
51 - 64 : Conservative
64 - 70 : Labour
70 - 74 : Conservative
74 - 79 : Labour
79 - 97 : Conservative
97 - ?? : Labour

All Conservative governments had a reasonable majority in this period...8 of Labour's years had either a small majority (5 or so) or a minority government.

So we have ~22 years for Labour and ~35 years for the Tories.

[Solly]

Look up "Thatcher" then try convincing me that British politics have shifted to the right.

If British politics have shifted to the left or not at all, why did Labour need to move right in order to be elected, even despite several years of inept Tory rule?