Which set of revolutionaries do you have the most respect for?

[chequita guevara]

280 million, thank you.

[axi]

That doesn't make George Washington a greater Revolutionary than Theodoros Kolokotronis.

And the Greek Revolution inspired all the Balkan nations and the Italians in their respective revolutions and many individuals around the globe, like Eugene Delacroix and Lord Byron. It was the first revolution to occur after the Autocracy had defeated Napoleon and the French Revolution in Waterloo.

Look now, you made me sound like paiktis, you spoiler you!

[Stefu]

Until it hits 300 million, I'll choose to memorize 250 million, thank you.

[chequita guevara]

It occurs to me that unlike Washington, your "revolution" established a monarchy. In any event, neither was a revolution, they were wars of independence.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by axi
Btw, I am curious, how many of you know about Ypsilantis, Kolokotronis, Papaflessas, Karaiskakis, Androutsos, Athanasios Diakos, Nikitaras, Miaoulis, Bouboulina, Kanaris, etc?

Who?

[Stefu]

That doesn't make George Washington a greater Revolutionary than Theodoros Kolokotronis.

But it does explain why an American, or anyone else non-Greek, would sooner list an American revolutionary than Theodoros Kolokotronis, of whom I know nothing about except his presumably member of S.A.G.A.P.O nation connected with revolution of 1821.

[Stefu]

In any event, neither was a revolution, they were wars of independence.

All wars of independece are revolutions in sense that they end one authority's rule over particular area and establish another authority. What separates it from "real" revolution is that "real" revolution does it for whole country.

[axi]

It occurs to me that unlike Washington, your "revolution" established a monarchy. In any event, neither was a revolution, they were wars of independence.

1. 1774 was a war of independence or a revolution? I guess it was both because it formed a nation and replaced monarchy with republic.

2. 1821 was a revolution because the revolutionaries were both trying for national independence but also for a democratic/republican regime. During the 10 years of the revolution, 3 different constitutions were put in effect, which involved some kind of parliament. These were replaced in 1829-1832 IIRC by a governor who was replaced (after two years of civ-style anarchy) by absolute monarchy in 1834. But absolute monarchy ywas inflicted to us from the Great Powers and there had to be another revolt in 1843 to grant us a constitution. Then we had to wat for the king to die heirless to be given another king who granted us a parliament in 1864. Then we had to wait until 1876 when some stubborn politician insisted that the government should come from the majority in the parlaiment instead of being appointed by the king. Then we had to wait until 1974 to get rid of the monarchy alltogether (with a failed attempt in 1935). That's for history's sake...

Being a small nation means you'll get screwed many times over until they let you do what you really want.

[MrFun]

So in other words, when Americans comment on something they're proud of, with their country, they are suppose to be subjected to anti-American boo-hooing.

And when other people of other countries comment on something they're proud of, with their country, it is legitimate.

Wow -- that is like, sooooooo fair.

[Sava]

I don't know if I agree or disagree with any of them. I have not seen one set of revolutionaries that have a clear cut cause that I would completely agree with. It's a large grey area. I have yet to see a black and white scenario.

Although I admit I am not informed when it comes to most of the world revolutions going on right now.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

World Turned Upside Down (Diggers)

(Leon Rosselson)

Recorded by **** Gaughan

In 1649
To St George's Hill
A ragged band they called the Diggers
Came to show the people' s will
They defied the landlords
They defied the laws
They were the dispossessed
Reclaiming what was theirs


We come in peace, they said
To dig and sow
We come to work the land in common
And to make the waste land grow
This earth divided
We will make whole
So it can be
A common treasury for all.


The sin of property
We do disdain
No one has any right to buy and sell
The earth for private gain
By theft and murder
They took the land
Now everywhere the walls
Rise up at their command.


They make the laws
To chain us well
The clergy dazzle us with heaven
Or they damn us into hell
We will not worship
The God they serve
The God of greed who feeds the rich
While poor men starve


We work, we eat together
We need no swords
We will not bow to masters
Or pay rent to the lords
We are free men
Though we are poor
You Diggers all stand up for glory


Stand up now
From the men of property
The orders came
They sent the hired men and troopers
To wipe out the Diggers' claim
Tear down their cottages
Destroy their corn
They were dispersed -
Only the vision lingers on


You poor take courage
You rich take care
The earth was made a common treasury
For everyone to share
All things in common
All people one
We come in peace
The order came to cut them down

[chequita guevara]

The diggers were pretty cool. There was a strong leveller tendency in the Amiercan revolution, which is why the "Founding Fathers" got involved, to protect their property.

[Boris Godunov]

How about Joe Hill?

I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night,
Alive as you and me
Says I, 'but Joe, you're ten years dead!'
'I never died,' says he,
'I never died,' says he.

'In Salt Lake City,' Joe says, 'I
Am standing by my bed.'
'They framed you on a murder charge.'
Says Joe: 'but I ain't dead!'
Says Joe: 'but I ain't dead!'

'The copper bosses killed you, Joe!
They shot you dead!' says I.
'Takes more than guns to kill a man,"
Says Joe, "I didn't die."
Says Joe, "I didn't die."

And standing there, as big life
And smiling with his eyes,
Says Joe, 'What they can never kill
Went on to organize!
Went on to organize!'

From San Diego up to Maine,
In every mine and mill,
Where workers fight to organize,
It's there you'll find Joe Hill,
It's there you'll find Joe Hill.

[chequita guevara]

The Internationale [variant words in square brackets]

Arise ye workers [starvelings] from your slumbers
Arise ye prisoners of want
For reason in revolt now thunders
And at last ends the age of cant.
Away with all your superstitions
Servile masses arise, arise
We'll change henceforth [forthwith] the old tradition [conditions]
And spurn the dust to win the prize.

So comrades, come rally
And the last fight let us face
The Internationale unites the human race.
So comrades, come rally
And the last fight let us face
The Internationale unites the human race.

No more deluded by reaction
On tyrants only we'll make war
The soldiers too will take strike action
They'll break ranks and fight no more
And if those cannibals keep trying
To sacrifice us to their pride
They soon shall hear the bullets flying
We'll shoot the generals on our own side.

No saviour from on high delivers
No faith have we in prince or peer
Our own right hand the chains must shiver
Chains of hatred, greed and fear
E'er the thieves will out with their booty [give up their booty]
And give to all a happier lot.
Each [those] at the forge must do their duty
And we'll strike while the iron is hot.

[chequita guevara]

Another commie tune

In Old Moscow, In the Kremlin
(a Trotskyist song, written after the Hitler-Stalin pact of Sept. 1939. To the tune of "Oh, my Darlin Clementine")

In Old Moscow, in the Kremlin
In the Fall of '39
Sat a Russian and a Prussian
Drawing up the Party Line

(Chorus)
Oh my Stalin, Oh my Stalin,
Oh my Stalin party line
Oh I never will forsake you
For I love this life of mine

Leon Trotsky was a Nazi
We all knew it for a fact
Pravda said it, We all read it
'fore the Hitler-Stalin pact

Once, a Nazi, would be shotsy
That was then the party line
Now a Nazi's, hotsy-totsy
Volga boatmen sail the Rhine

Now the Fuhrer and our leader
Stand within the party line
All the Russians, love the Prussians
Trotsky's laying British mines