Israeli Repression and the Language of Liars

[Eli]

Why the Palestinians throw rocks.

ftp://202.99.219.250/_temp/why pales...row rocks.mpeg

[Ned]

Originally posted by panag
hi ,

well Ned , at least you seem to be getting all the facts , ....or other wise you are a person who is incredibly smart , .....

have a nice day

Panag, I remeber the events leading up to the Six Day War very well. The USSR green-lighted Arab aggression. They demanded that the US withdraw the 6th Fleet from the Med. They moved the Black Sea Fleet next to Israel. Nasser asked that the UNEF leave. The Sec. Gen. complied without consulting the SC - something he should have done. The Arabs mobilized, engaged in war pacts, imposed a naval blockade, and publically proclaimed their intention to destroy Israel.

Israel defended itself ably. It occuppied the West Bank and Golan heights in a defensive war. SC 242 states only that Israel is required to withdraw from some, but not all, of the occupied when there is an overall peace agreement. Israel's occupation of the West Bank is not "illegal."

Until the recent Saudi proposal, the majority of the Arab states have never offered peace. The Arab proposal however, continues Arab aggression by demanding a withdrawal from "all" occuppied territories. SC 242 does not require this. As well, the Arabs continue to insist on the right of return for Palestinian refugees. For reasons previously stated, this is more Arab aggression because the result will be the destruction of Israel.

The terrorist acts that Arafat began in 1967 continue 'til today. Arafat is the cause of terrorism, not the solution. I am simply amazed at Israeli restraint. Obviously, Bush has given Sharon some sort of ultimatum.

I can only hope the next steps produce peace. I am pessimistic, though, because Arafat is still there.

[CyberGnu]

The UN sided with aggression

'Yes sir, the fight started when the other guy hit me back. '

The declaration of the state of Israel is the aggression, Ned. Get your facts straight, and stop reading Israeli propaganda pieces.

[CyberGnu]

Ned, another thing you seem to have misunderstood: the settlements are illegal not because they are occupied land, but because they are examples of ethnic cleansing. The geneva convention specifially forbids the relocation of an ethnic group from occupied territories to make room for another ethnic group.

Of course, Israeli apologists usually don't worry much about ehtnic cleansin, as long as it wasn't carried out between 1939 and 1945...

[Ned]

CyberGnu, So... the sheeps clothing comes off! The existence of Israel is the problem all along. It seems you would have to have been there on the front lines of Arab armies in '67, flame thrower in hand, finishing the job that was left unfinished in Europe during the '40's.

On the 4th Geneva Convention, have you read it? I quoted the relevant passages earlier. It does not forbid settlements in circumstances like the conflict in Palestine.

The charge of "ethnic cleansing" though is a serious one. If I understand "ethnic cleansing," this involves wholesale deportation of the existing population by force. Is this actually happening in Palestine?

[CyberGnu]

what sheeps clothing? You are the one who started bleating about how 'the UN sided with aggression',

Also an interesting non-sequiter there... I don't think the creation of Israel was legal, therefore I'm for genocide? What other conclusions do you have for me? I think coke is the best softdrink, therefore I am a pedofile?

Finally, the demolishing of palestinian houses and orchards to make room for expansion of jewish settlements is pretty much the definition of ethnic cleansing...

[Ned]

Originally posted by CyberGnu
Finally, the demolishing of palestinian houses and orchards to make room for expansion of jewish settlements is pretty much the definition of ethnic cleansing...

I assume they did not buy the houses and orchards first.

But, Natan, Panag, Eli - is this true?

Ned

[CyberGnu]

The way the settlements work is that some jewish group finds an area where no palestinian currently lives. Might be an arid hilltop, a piece of rock, whatever.

The settlers get an Israeli court to declare the land vacant, and they move in with a couple of trailers.

After the first time the local palestinians try to evict the settlers, they go shout to the army for help, and the IDF will establish a security perimeter around the settlement. The perimeter is roughly the distance a sniper can shoot, i.e. quite a bit. The palestinians living inside this security perimeter are evicted.

After a few months, new trailers move in. Space is plentiful, since the settlement is surrounded with one mile of empty space... And when the settlement has been expanded, so is the security perimeter.


In the areas around Jerusalem, the situtation is slightly different, IIUIC. It is densely populated, so to clear out areas for settlements, they have a court declare palestinian buildings illegal because they lack the proper legal documents (dokuments that palestinans practically cannot get, even though they been living their longer than the nation of thieves have existed...). The IDF demolishes the buildings, and the area is subsequently declared vacant.

Does it give you a warm fuzzy feeling to defend this blatant greed?

[Ned]

What you are describing is quite a bit different from ethnic cleansing. It involves the use of courts to determine rights. This is entirely proper if the courts are not mere shams.

From an earlier post, it seems that many Palestinians did not and do not own the land where they live. It may not be possible for some Palestinians to produce title documents to their land because the actually don't own it.

I am not so sure about the security zones. I hope the IDF pays for the land.

Ned

[Sarxis]

There is something about the title of this thread that is strikingly potent. Its just eye catching- its the 'Language of Liars' part.

[CyberGnu]

Ned, it is well known that these courts are sham courts.

Look, even the US acknowledges that the settlements are illegal. When the the only nation in the world who actually defends Israels crimes acknowledge the illegal nature, you'd think that is has to be pretty much black and white. God knows that Bush would find a way to blame Arafat fro the settlements as well, if only he could...

[Ned]

Originally posted by CyberGnu
Ned, it is well known that these courts are sham courts.

Look, even the US acknowledges that the settlements are illegal. When the the only nation in the world who actually defends Israels crimes acknowledge the illegal nature, you'd think that is has to be pretty much black and white. God knows that Bush would find a way to blame Arafat fro the settlements as well, if only he could...

CyberGnu, If you could provide me with a link to a US State Dept. or other official statement on this issue, I would appreciate it.

[Eli]

Originally posted by CyberGnu
Finally, the demolishing of palestinian houses and orchards to make room for expansion of jewish settlements is pretty much the definition of ethnic cleansing...

There are hundreds of thousands of Palestinian houses in the territories. I dont understand why the murderous Jews destroy only the ones in the middle of battle zones. Like they care for their soldiers, all they want is the blood of homeless children. Go figure.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Ned


I assume they did not buy the houses and orchards first.

But, Natan, Panag, Eli - is this true?

Ned

hi ,

sometimes they do , .........
also , a house shall be broken to the ground for a number of reason's , like you was told a while back , ......
in short , .....if you are the family of a bomber or it's his house , aldo this is only done rarely , ........
if the house is builded illegal , like most ones , and they break those house's off everywhere , .....in the world
if the house is unsafe for its occupants ,
on the request of the landowner ,..............
bla-bla , and so and so on , .........

in short , nope we dont go out to have fun by means of breaking there houses down , ..............

have a nice day

[Panag]

Originally posted by CyberGnu
The way the settlements work is that some jewish group finds an area where no palestinian currently lives. Might be an arid hilltop, a piece of rock, whatever.

The settlers get an Israeli court to declare the land vacant, and they move in with a couple of trailers.

After the first time the local palestinians try to evict the settlers, they go shout to the army for help, and the IDF will establish a security perimeter around the settlement. The perimeter is roughly the distance a sniper can shoot, i.e. quite a bit. The palestinians living inside this security perimeter are evicted.

After a few months, new trailers move in. Space is plentiful, since the settlement is surrounded with one mile of empty space... And when the settlement has been expanded, so is the security perimeter.


In the areas around Jerusalem, the situtation is slightly different, IIUIC. It is densely populated, so to clear out areas for settlements, they have a court declare palestinian buildings illegal because they lack the proper legal documents (dokuments that palestinans practically cannot get, even though they been living their longer than the nation of thieves have existed...). The IDF demolishes the buildings, and the area is subsequently declared vacant.

Does it give you a warm fuzzy feeling to defend this blatant greed?

hi ,

strange , very strange , now , where was this again , ..........

oh you say in Israel , ...........hmmm , ...wait a minute , ....

nope went to check , you should come and see for yourself , ......

intrested , ............

have a nice day