Israeli Repression and the Language of Liars

[Promethus]

Anyone care to deconstruct this article?
And FYI the author is Jewish.

Israeli Repression and the Language of Liars

http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=13087

If what we see in Israel is democracy, then what does fascism look like? In a world such as this, where words have lost all meaning, we might as well just burn all the dictionaries.

[David Floyd]

Good article

[MOBIUS]

Excellent article!

Again it exposes Zionism as a racist doctrine and Israel as a fascist state!

The Generous Offer

1) The maintenance of most Jewish settlements in the territories

2) Restriction of the Palestinian state to the worst land, devoid of its own water supply

3) Cutoff at numerous chokepoints by Israeli security.

The one that has been described variously (without any acknowledgement of the inconsistency) as having offered the Palestinians either 93 percent, or is it 95 percent or maybe 96 percent or perhaps 98 percent of the West Bank and Gaza.

To do this Israel would have to...

1) Erect the fences in such a manner as to incorporate at least one-quarter of the territories into Israel, so as to subsume the settlements. So not 93 percent, or 96 or 98, but at best 75 percent, and still on the worst land.

2) Furthermore, the fences would slice up Jerusalem and restrict Arab access to the Holy Basin and the Old City: a direct swipe at Muslims who seek access on a par with their fellow descendants of Abraham.

Such a “solution” would mean the final loss for the Palestinians of all but 17 percent of their pre-Israel territory!!!

Who here, can with any clear conscience claim that Arafat was wrong to reject this INSULT?


BTW anyone interested in further reading from Jewish sources should try...

1) B'Tselem

2) The Association for Civil Rights in Israel

3) Physicians for Human Rights - Israel

Actually there's loads of these organisations once you start looking...

Here is Peace Now , the one's responsible for the 60,000 who marched the other day. People say I hate Israelis etc, but here's 60,000 that I applaud greatly!

An article from Peace Now entitled 'A shameful chapter in Israel's history'...

[Boris Godunov]

An interesting bit of reading. Will be interested in seeing the responses (if any) from the other side. I worked at Hadassah for a brief period here in NY (they at least didn't care I was not only a gentile, but one of mostly German descent...), and the colleagues I keep in touch with from there are all pretty much against current Israeli aggression.

[Natan]

Is there any actual evidence that a majority of Israelis would like to vote against Zionism? And if the term "Jewish state" is not defined by the Basic Law (come to think of it, Germany has one of those instead of a Constitution as well, I guess they are Fascists) is this really anti-democratic? Is Britain not a democracy because you can't advocate overthrowing the Monarchy? Does the ban on the Nazi party in Austria make it a fascist dictatorship?

Israel is a Democracy because it holds basically free elections every 4 years which result in the peaceful transition of power. And the idea that a discriminatory immigration policy is tantamount to Fascism is ridiculous. To turn the author's expression back on him, if Israel is "Fascist," then the English language is dead.

[Sirotnikov]

And FYI the author is Jewish

So f**king what?

Hitler supposedly had jewish links too.

You're acting out of the principle that a Jew has to be pro-israel or has to know a great deal about it.

Unlike in Palestine, Israelis are allowed to have different ideas and they are discussed in the media.

And yes, there are anti-zionist jews, even in Israel (wierd, no?).

This, despite the fact that Israel has no constitution;

Neither does Brittain.

despite the fact that Israel is defined as the state of the Jewish people, providing special rights and privileges to anyone in the world who is Jewish and seeks to live there, over and above longtime Arab residents.

Similar to Poland which gives special rights to poles, and Russia which gives special rights to russians living in other countries.

This, despite the fact that Israel bars any candidate from holding office who thinks the country should be a secular, democratic state with equal rights for all.

This is a lie.

Israel bars candidates who thinks the country should be non-jewish or non-democratic.

Israel is an ethnical nation, not a political one. I know it's hard to understand for some people, but they are simply not aware that there's a world outside USA.

This, despite the fact that non-Jews are restricted in terms of how much land they can own, and in which places they can own land at all, thanks to laws granting preferential treatment to Jewish residents.

huh?

There's a restriction on the amount of land that can be owned by private bodies. There's no legal restriction on the amount of land that non-jews can own.

This, despite that fact that even the Israeli Supreme Court has acknowledged the use of torture against suspected “terrorists” and other “enemies” of the Jewish state.

Not at all true.
The supreme court has banned the use of torture, except "limited physical pressure" in "ticking time bomb" scenarios. Therefore, if a case arises where torture is used not directly to prevent an upcoming terract, the Supreme Court will send the torturers to jail.

It's also idiocy to think that there's any country that wouldn't use torture to save it's citizens.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Similar to Poland which gives special rights to poles, and Russia which gives special rights to russians living in other countries.

Poles and Russians are ethnic catagories. Judaism is SOLELY a religion, no matter what ignorant people will say.

Israel bars candidates who thinks the country should be non-jewish or non-democratic.

Hence anyone that is for a secular democratic state.

[Sirotnikov]

For some, it is apparently sufficient that Israel has an electoral system, and that Arabs have the right to vote in those elections (though just how equally this right is protected is of course a different matter).

This is clear propoganda, as it questions the protection of this right, without bringing any proof for the opposite, yet intentionally putting doubt in a reader's mind.

This right exists for everyone and none are banned from voting.

The fact that one can’t vote for a candidate who questions the special Jewish nature of the state, because such candidates can’t run for or hold office, strikes most as irrelevant: hardly enough to call into question their democratic credentials.

And in England you can't cancel the monarchy.
so?

[Sirotnikov]

In Israel, voters get to choose between Zionists. In the former case, we recognize such truncated freedom as authoritarianism. In the latter case, we call it democracy.

This is also not true.

Currently, there are several parties in the Knesset, Meretz and Hadash, which are calling to cancel zionism and make Israel a political nation.

[Sirotnikov]

Also, what are these "worse land" nonsense???

It's like claiming that England is not treating the Scots well, since it only offers them the "worse" land - scottland. It's idiotic.

Like it's our ****ing fault that we settled on land and.... wow... improved it.

[Sirotnikov]

Furthermore, the fences would slice up Jerusalem and restrict Arab access to the Holy Basin and the Old City: a direct swipe at Muslims who seek access on a par with their fellow descendants of Abraham.

Again nonsense.

Israel has always allowed free access to the holy sites and will continue to do so.

It were the Jordanians that barred free access and infact desecrated Jewish holy sites.

And if we're talking about free access - how about Jewish access to the temple mount? Namely Ariel Sharon?

[Lincoln]

The guy who wrote this article is living in a dream world. Thailand is a Buddahist state with a king. It is also a democracy. Sovereign nations can have whatever state religion they choose unless he is suggesting that we sanction all those who do not subscribe to his version of the secular state idea.

[Zoid]

Exelllent artcle I would have continue d as s Mobnius. But I don´t like to repeat stuff. . .

[Sirotnikov]

Kamrat - excellent thinking - you only read sources with thoughts similar to your own.

Furthermore you failed to respond to the problems i raised about the article. it's full of either inexact facts or logical phallacies.

instead - like always, you ignored that and only proceeded to strengthen your view.

[Imran Siddiqui]

And in England you can't cancel the monarchy.

Canceling the monarchy and actually SAYING you want to cancel the monarchy are two different things. You can be elected to Parliament even if you want to end the monarchy. Can't be elected to the Knesset if you say you don't want Israel to be a Jewish state .