Did the Axis have any chance at all in WWII?

[Sprayber]

I agree KH, nazi Germany seemed to exist on the next conquest. It was never going to be enough just to go with what they had at the time. What have you gotten for Germany today seemed to be Hitler's main concern.

[Goingonit]

Nobody's focusing on the axis' goals: they wanted to conquer the world - no less would suffice. They would not and could not have stopped after Poland and Manchuria - neither Japan nor Germany could run a peacetime economy with any efficiency.

So could they have conquered the world? I think everybody would agree no.

[orange]

Originally posted by Goingonit
Nobody's focusing on the axis' goals: they wanted to conquer the world - no less would suffice.

They would not and could not have stopped after Poland and Manchuria - neither Japan nor Germany could run a peacetime economy with any efficiency.

So could they have conquered the world? I think everybody would agree no.

Do you really believe that?

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Mikhail
Germans could have, if they had a smarter leader who didn't commit so many men to racist genocide. Also, Britain was losing pretty bad, Germany COULD have offered Britain peace half-way through the war, and simply kept their gained territory in Europe.

The Japanese could have won as well, if they hadn't attacked Pearl Harbor. Seriously, I doubt the US would have cared whether or not Japan controlled China. FDR would have most likely never been able to convince the US public that entering the war was a must if not for Pearl Harbor.

The US did care about China, that's why we cut the Japanese supply of American oil and iron off. It was known that their oil reserves would reach a critical low in 18 months. They believed that they could survive if they took the oil fields of the Dutch East Indies, but realized that they couldn't leave the Phillipines in US hands because the US could completely block off the Dutch East Indies with airpower alone.

[Cavalcadeus]

Germany could of taken England if Hitler had allowed the German army to destroy the BEF at Dunkirk instead of stopping it and letting the Luftwaffe attempt to destroy it. Then using the Luftwaffe's numerical advantage to capture the airspace above the English Channel and Southern England, airborne landings could capture Southern English port cities and pave the way for seaborne landings of the German army. With almost no professional army or weapons England couldn't hold out for long.

With England eliminated the United States would not be able to stage seaborne landings across the Atlantic. The bulk of the German army could be focused against any pockets f British resistance in the Mediteranian Sea or the Middle East.

Germany could then focus the bulk of its forces against the USSR. Combined with Japanese landing in the East the USSR would have collapsed. Although a large amount of forces would have to be used to keep Russia under control, Germany and Japan would have a free hand to act in Europe, Asia and Africa.

The Axis probably wouldn't be able to invade North America. Germany and Japan would also probably end up fighting since the Japanese aren't part of the "master race".

I'm glad that Hitler was a dumba$$.

[Faeelin]

No.

1)insufficient industry. The USA produced more weapons than the entire axis COMBINED.

2) Insufficient consolidation. China wasn't worth it for Japan, and they never exploited the territories they conquered for the resources they needed (oil in the dutch territories) sufficiently.

3) Weak allies.
Finland/Italy, etc.

[Goingonit]

Originally posted by orange
Do you really believe that?

I do believe that much like the Soviet Union, their command economies would grind to a screeching halt when they actually had to deal with producing more than war materiel.

And their propoganda would be rather impotent in peacetime - they would lose the control of the state that can be achieved during war.

[orange]

Originally posted by Goingonit
I do believe that much like the Soviet Union, their command economies would grind to a screeching halt when they actually had to deal with producing more than war materiel.

And their propoganda would be rather impotent in peacetime - they would lose the control of the state that can be achieved during war.

That's not the issue. Do you really think that Germany and Japan wanted to take over the world? - that's the issue.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by orange


That's not the issue. Do you really think that Germany and Japan wanted to take over the world? - that's the issue.

I think Hitler had masturbatory fantasies about it. It would have been impracticable to say the least. Remember that he balked at invading even England...

[Goingonit]

Originally posted by orange
That's not the issue. Do you really think that Germany and Japan wanted to take over the world? - that's the issue.

Doesn't everybody want to?

I think Japan would have been fine with capturing enough resources to maintain an industrial economy, but Hitler did IMO believe in the whole "master race" bit, and his goal was probably the world.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Sprayber
I agree KH, nazi Germany seemed to exist on the next conquest. It was never going to be enough just to go with what they had at the time. What have you gotten for Germany today seemed to be Hitler's main concern.

Same way with most world-conquerors. Invasion after invasion. When the booty stops flowing in, the centre falls apart. Classic example is Napoleon.

[orange]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
I think Hitler had masturbatory fantasies about it. It would have been impracticable to say the least. Remember that he balked at invading even England...

Yes, one of many very, very odd sexual fantasies Hitler had

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by UberKruX
I've actually discussed this with my boss (he served in ww2, grunt) and he claimed that the Germans (or as he called them, "Krauts") had America "Out gunned, Out manned, and Outthought".

the out gunned part is sinmple to understand, German weaponry gave Germany a slight edge. Out manned didnt seem right to me, but he claims that in all the action he's seen, the Krauts had more men then expected / wanted. as for "out thought", i uppose he's talkign about Rommel and the Gang, but i'm not quite sure.

Overall, i think Germany had a good shot at winning their side of ww2, England was a formidable foe, and America pushed them over the edge. My Grandfather, who also served in ww2 said "The Germans Messed Up Big Time, and We Capitialized on Their Mistakes". i'm not sure what he's referring to, but i'm only a minor ww2 buff.

another way germany could have won would have been if they left russia alone for a while longer, although the US probably would have pushed russia to attack germany anyway.

on the japanese front, I think they had an extremely good shot at winning. if you ignore the nukes on hiro - naga, the Japanese were actually doing rather well for most of the war. The American "Island Hopping" strategy was slow comming. The japanese could have taken all of southeast asia, and mayeb a chunk of russia, but BOTH sides of the war are directly influenced by the other.

Germany had better tanks, but the US negated that edge with better airplanes. While it would appear logical that German jets might have bested allied air power, the fuel situation was such that the widespread deployment of jets would have wordsened Germany's strategic position. They literally had a choice between having Tiger tanks to keep the Russians at bay vs. having jets to fight allied ari power. Gemany had better machine guns, but the American semiautomatic rifle was better than German bolt action Mauser. The German assault rifle was not issued widely enough to make a difference. American artillery, as used in the American system, was without question the best in the war.

By D-day the Germans definiely did not have the US outmanned, at least not on the western front. You have to take into consideration that a significant number of western front troops were actually prisoners and work units, some of which were more dangerous to their officers than to the allies.

Germany couldn't leave Russia alone, the Russian were out producing and out modernizing the Germans in weaponry by 1941, and the effect of Stalin's army purges was being allieviated as new officers were being trained. The high command felt that they could not wait even one year.

Germany could have preparesd for winter war. They could have at least made winter uniforms for the troops. If they could have just halved their losses to frost bite in the winter of '41-'42 they might have been able to meet their objectives in the '42 offensive. That's still not saying that they would have put Russia out of the war.

[KrazyHorse]

Yes, one of many very, very odd sexual fantasies Hitler had

Actually, he was apparently a bit of a prude. He shared that and his anti-semitism with Canada's WWII leader. Might have been why they got along famously when they met in '36 or '37.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Goingonit


Doesn't everybody want to?

I think Japan would have been fine with capturing enough resources to maintain an industrial economy, but Hitler did IMO believe in the whole "master race" bit, and his goal was probably the world.

Japan had the "Tanaka Plan", an elaborate blueprint for imposing Japanese civilization on the whole world. The basic idea was to capture China, which would supply the manpower. The Japanese were then to sail east to the US, whose conquest would supply the resources. With the manpower of China and the resources of the US the rest of the world would be a cakewalk.