Did the Axis have any chance at all in WWII?

[Jaguar]

Do you think that the Germans, Italians, and Japanese could have won World War II if they employed different strategies, or was the US too powerful?

[Ned]

Keeping the U.S. out of the war was their only hope. Ned

[orange]

haven't you played Civ2? Christ, I can beat it with the Axis even on Deity

[Jaguar]

I can beat it with the Neutrals on dety. (I have!)

In the real world the americans consisted of a bit more than washington and new york.

[KrazyHorse]

Re: Did the Axis have any chance at all in WWII?

Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior
Do you think that the Germans, Italians, and Japanese could have won World War II if they employed different strategies, or was the US too powerful?

Without the US the Japanese would have driven the British back to Australia and made the Eatern Pacific their playground. The British would still have driven the Axis out of North Africa, and the Russians would have steamrollered them right to the Atlantic.

Without Russia in the picture (also assuming the Germans don't have to even defend on that front), the Germans could have taken North Africa. Britain would have held out, and you'd be left with a cold war across the Channel.

It's funny how you think the US did most of the work in WWII...

[orange]

Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior
I can beat it with the Neutrals on dety. (I have!)

In the real world the americans consisted of a bit more than washington and new york.

nope, not until WW3 with the Soviet Union in 1979

[Mikhail]

Germans could have, if they had a smarter leader who didn't commit so many men to racist genocide. Also, Britain was losing pretty bad, Germany COULD have offered Britain peace half-way through the war, and simply kept their gained territory in Europe.

The Japanese could have won as well, if they hadn't attacked Pearl Harbor. Seriously, I doubt the US would have cared whether or not Japan controlled China. FDR would have most likely never been able to convince the US public that entering the war was a must if not for Pearl Harbor.

[orange]

Better question is: If Barbarossa never took place (in other words: Operation Hitler is a bleeding moron) could Germany have conquered England?

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by orange
Better question is: If Barbarossa never took place (in other words: Operation Hitler is a bleeding moron) could Germany have conquered England?

I already answered that. I don't think so. They might have been able to pull it off if they'd thrown everything and the kitchen sink across the Channel in 1940.

To quote an idiot who spoke too soon "Hitler had missed the boat" by Barbarossa.

[Inverse Icarus]

I've actually discussed this with my boss (he served in ww2, grunt) and he claimed that the Germans (or as he called them, "Krauts") had America "Out gunned, Out manned, and Outthought".

the out gunned part is sinmple to understand, German weaponry gave Germany a slight edge. Out manned didnt seem right to me, but he claims that in all the action he's seen, the Krauts had more men then expected / wanted. as for "out thought", i uppose he's talkign about Rommel and the Gang, but i'm not quite sure.

Overall, i think Germany had a good shot at winning their side of ww2, England was a formidable foe, and America pushed them over the edge. My Grandfather, who also served in ww2 said "The Germans Messed Up Big Time, and We Capitialized on Their Mistakes". i'm not sure what he's referring to, but i'm only a minor ww2 buff.

another way germany could have won would have been if they left russia alone for a while longer, although the US probably would have pushed russia to attack germany anyway.

on the japanese front, I think they had an extremely good shot at winning. if you ignore the nukes on hiro - naga, the Japanese were actually doing rather well for most of the war. The American "Island Hopping" strategy was slow comming. The japanese could have taken all of southeast asia, and mayeb a chunk of russia, but BOTH sides of the war are directly influenced by the other.

[orange]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
I already answered that. I don't think so. They might have been able to pull it off if they'd thrown everything and the kitchen sink across the Channel in 1940.

To quote an idiot who spoke too soon "Hitler had missed the boat" by Barbarossa.

sorry, didnt' read that.

Well, I think sealion was similarly doomed to failure...and that the best plan would be to consolidate and make an agreement with the US and England somewhere around August 1942. Push sending forces to Japan...

However, barbarossa, if implemented earlier (as it was supposed to) may have proved more lucrative than it was after north africa...i still don't think they would have won, though...maybe just taken and held Leningrad, Stalingrad, maybe a stalemate over moscow

[Inverse Icarus]

Originally posted by Mikhail
Germans could have, if they had a smarter leader who didn't commit so many men to racist genocide.

i know i love my genocide unbiased

[orange]

Originally posted by UberKruX
another way germany could have won would have been if they left russia alone for a while longer, although the US probably would have pushed russia to attack germany anyway.

not likely...Communism was just as bitterly opposed as Fascism...and there'd be no reason to think Russia would go along with it, seeing as how the pact with Hitler was mutually beneficial...and the USSR desparately needed to industrialize, so it didn't want war.

[Inverse Icarus]

Originally posted by orange


not likely...Communism was just as bitterly opposed as Fascism...and there'd be no reason to think Russia would go along with it, seeing as how the pact with Hitler was mutually beneficial...and the USSR desparately needed to industrialize, so it didn't want war.

well the US pursuaded them to figth Japan, didn't they?

OH WHAT TANGELED WEBS WE WEAVE.

[KrazyHorse]

orange, the disparity of forces was most overwhelming near the start of the war. The UK didn't start taking the war seriously until the 8 awful weeks in the spring of 1940.

Once a cold war situation develops, you have to remember that Germany is only barely outproducing the British, and they have the headache of trying to keep the occupied territories from revolting. No matter how much time passes, you're still left with 20 miles of open water to cross with the best navy in the world just waiting for those nice, soft troop ships...