Bush at it again, more protectionism

[Saint Marcus]

Third. You aren't on the wrong end of their lumber tarriffs...

really? I thought the US was in a free-trade-zone with Canada (NAFTA or something). Can you fill me in?

[KrazyHorse]

NAFTA doesn't mean anything when the protectionism wagon gets rolling...

The US is claiming that we subsidize our lumber indstry by charging below-market prices to cut trees on Crown land. The thought is that the US is trying to hurt our lumber companies enough that US lumber companies will be able to buy them out at low, low price. Court challenge will take months, hopefully companies will be able to hold out that long.

[Garth Vader]

You also forgot to mention that the US has tried this on our lumber MANY times in the past and we have always won the rulings.

[el freako]

Originally posted by faded glory
.....the war started with the economic problems in the west. A failure of capitalism and banking across the board. Out of that, Fascists and Communists rose up. Both preying on high-unemployment and promising bread and stability.

You really need to pay more attention to what I post, Faded.

19th Century globalization ended with the first world war - and the effects of that (coupled with furthur rises in the economic nationalism that was growing before the war) led to the depression.

Originally posted by faded glory
That wont happen again.

Nothing happens exactly the same - but what guarentees are there? You certainly can't give me any.

Your faith that things will not deteriorate is touching - and I really hope my pessimism is wrong.

However if you lived in 1860 I think you would have been just as dismissive of the prospect of most of the west turning it's back on free trade within 50 years - and you would surely have laughed at the suggestion that the catalyst would be a war with Britian fighting alongside France against Prussia (one of it's closest allies for the previous 150 years).

[Saint Marcus]

NAFTA doesn't mean anything when the protectionism wagon gets rolling...

rather pointless indeed. so much for a free trade zone.

You also forgot to mention that the US has tried this on our lumber MANY times in the past and we have always won the rulings.

They never learn, do they?

[Garth Vader]

They never learn, do they?

Sure they do, each time they do this our industry suffers. They have to pay back the tariff money, but since that takes a number of years the damage to the industry is done. Repeated damage like this can cripple the industry.

[Adam Smith]

Couple of comments.

1. I am very disappointed that Bush signed this farm bill. I specifically remember the presidential debate in St. Louis. When asked what each candidate would do to help strugglin farms, Bush said he would continue to push to open global markets, while Gore said he would boost agricultural price supports. Bush should have stuck with his original answer.

2. Heard on NPR yesterday that the farm bill contains some really intersting pricing provisions for milk. The nationwide price of milk is fixed to the price of wholesale milk sold at Boston, MA, and the provision was inserted by Sen. Leahy (D-VT). What NPR did not mention was that this is known as "basing point pricing", and is designed earn excess profits for producers near the basing point, while reducing competition from producers far away from the basing point (Wisconsin, Minnesota). The excess profits and reduced competition are due to transportation costs. Interesting thing is that the US Supreme Court found this system violated the antitrust laws when practiced by private producers instead of the government. (I think the case was US vs. Eddystone Pipe)

3. Re the French: Last time we were in France we stayed at a B&B on a farm in Normandy. Over dinner we had a long discussion with the hosts about French vs. US agricultural policy. At least from this farmer's point of view, French policy is justified because it preserves the traditional French way of life, which is centered on the countryside, not the cities. At least we got to finish the meal with 30 year old Calvados.

4. Saint Marcus:
Another good job of identifying what the US does wrong. Still awaiting your appearance on the nuclear disarmament thread, where the US does something right.

[Saint Marcus]

awaiting your appearance on the nuclear disarmament thread, where the US does something right.

hmm. I must have overlooked that thread