Take my tractor and you're dead!

[David Floyd]

That of course is entirely your opinion.

Certainly so, but if someone enters my home and begins to rob me, why should I not have the right to stop him?

[Boris Godunov]

I never said you didn't. Just wanted to clarify things to avoid confusion.

[David Floyd]

I wasn't aware there was any.

[Boris Godunov]

So...if it were illegal for you to kill an intruder in your house, what would you do?

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by David Floyd
KH,

Killing a cop/fed who tries to conduct an illegal search and seizure is perfectly just in my book, if they refuse to leave when you tell them to. It's no different from killing someone who breaks into your house in the middle of the night and tries to rob you.

But how do you know it is illegal? Shoot first and ask questions later? Um, sorry officer I didn't realize that you DID have a warrant.

[Boris Godunov]

You will see, DF, by the continued posts not understanding your statements about the warrants and conditions of entry that there still is a lot of confusion on some people's parts.

[David Floyd]

So...if it were illegal for you to kill an intruder in your house, what would you do?

If that's what needed to be done, yes.

Tub,

But how do you know it is illegal? Shoot first and ask questions later? Um, sorry officer I didn't realize that you DID have a warrant.

Before entering, a cop must present a valid warrant from a court that has jurisdiction (can't search an Iowa home with a California warrant, for example).
If he refuses to do so, then he obviously doesn't have one, as there is no valid or legal reason not to present it.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by David Floyd


If that's what needed to be done, yes.

I asked what you would do, this doesn't answer that. But if you mean kill the intruder, how would you judge need? Keep in mind, in this hypothetical situation, it is illegal to kill him no matter what.

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by David Floyd


If that's what needed to be done, yes.

Tub,



Before entering, a cop must present a valid warrant from a court that has jurisdiction (can't search an Iowa home with a California warrant, for example).
If he refuses to do so, then he obviously doesn't have one, as there is no valid or legal reason not to present it.

Ah, no we come to it, If, when answering your door, you are holding a gun, you have put that officer's life in danger. Therefore, he has the right to draw his gun and shoot you, correct?

[David Floyd]

Boris,

I asked what you would do, this doesn't answer that. But if you mean kill the intruder, how would you judge need? Keep in mind, in this hypothetical situation, it is illegal to kill him no matter what.

I would feel justified killing him, but would prefer to just wound him - killing doesn't excite me.

Tub,

If, when answering your door, you are holding a gun, you have put that officer's life in danger. Therefore, he has the right to draw his gun and shoot you, correct?

Who said I'd be holding a gun? It could be in, say, a shoulder holster. I could also hold it behind my back. Also, if I answer the door of my house, located on my own property, holding a gun in a non-threatening manner, I fail to see how a cop has a right to shoot me. Maybe I have no peephole, and am paranoid - so what?

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by David Floyd

Who said I'd be holding a gun? It could be in, say, a shoulder holster. I could also hold it behind my back. Also, if I answer the door of my house, located on my own property, holding a gun in a non-threatening manner, I fail to see how a cop has a right to shoot me. Maybe I have no peephole, and am paranoid - so what?

What I am getting at is the fact that, if the cop knows you have a gun, that gives him something like probable cause, it gives him a reason to search your house, based on the fact that you answered the door with a gun in your hand.

Even if you were justified, you would still go to jail.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by David Floyd
Boris,

I would feel justified killing him, but would prefer to just wound him - killing doesn't excite me.

If you feel justified in doing something against the law, what is it that makes that just? What makes something illegal just or something legal unjust?

[David Floyd]

What I am getting at is the fact that, if the cop knows you have a gun, that gives him something like probable cause, it gives him a reason to search your house, based on the fact that you answered the door with a gun in your hand.

Owning a gun is not probable cause to search without a warrant.

Boris,

If you feel justified in doing something against the law, what is it that makes that just? What makes something illegal just or something legal unjust?

Natural rights, of course.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Tuberski
What I am getting at is the fact that, if the cop knows you have a gun, that gives him something like probable cause, it gives him a reason to search your house, based on the fact that you answered the door with a gun in your hand.

The exercise of Constitutional rights doesn't probable cause in and of itself.

[Boris Godunov]

So where do those natural rights come from? Just another human fabrication?