socialism, property, and the state

[chequita guevara]

Yoiks, the boss is on.

[Zoid]

Yep, we better behave

[blackice]

Trotsky well said...

Now for my two cents; obliarchy my as* for those of you who think they are on top of the food chain think again....

[chequita guevara]

I don't think you understand, blackice. Trotsky's a fellow Bolshie.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
I don't think you understand, blackice. Trotsky's a fellow Bolshie.

I don't think you understand, che. Trotsky's a DL.

[Jon Miller]

While I am sure there are things I disagree with him in

most of what I have read I have agreed with

Jon Miller

[blackice]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
I don't think you understand, blackice. Trotsky's a fellow Bolshie.

What ever he is most of what he said is the common sense beyond that humanity.

[Jon Miller]

I think far more people have communist sympathies than they think

Jon Miller

[blackice]

Around here I think people are simply just tired of the obliarchy....

[Lung]

*Lung inadvertently wanders into hostile territory*

Without delving too deeply into politics (who am i kidding?), the original statement reminds me of an idea a workmate once had.

It went along the lines of the government owning and providing cards for individual use, whereby you just jump into a car and drive where you want to go, and simply leave the car with the keys in it for the next person to use.

Now, apart from the considerable problems arising with my country's sparseness of people, the problems associated with mistreatment of said cars would be astronomical! Anyone who has ever hired a rental car or used a company car can attest to the fact that no one treats someone else's car as well as they do their own. In such a scenario, cars would barely last a couple of years, and even if petrol was free, i doubt if many people would bother going to the effort of putting fuel into them. Within months the countryside would be littered with cars with empty fuel tanks and thrashed engines. I imagine this would cause a dilemma for socialists with environmental consciences

The rapid degeneration of the cars would result in a drastic reduction in the quality of replacement cars, and the costs would still go through the roof.

The purpose of my rantings is to highlight the fact that no one treats property as well as their own. It sort of puts a major hole into the concept of no personal ownership! Capitalism works because it underlines this basic premise.

[Frankychan]

*sigh* (here we go)

I think that Sprayber and I both have similar views on Communism's implementation in America. As far as I can see it, we both see it as a gradual process voted on by a large percentage from the populace. I'm sorry my fellow comrades, but I must break from the traditional thinking of communist thinking in "violence is the key".

IMHO, Che is correct in saying that America is mostly controlled by "Corporate America". Since these individual's possess most of the capital, they have the most influence and can persuade elected official's to vote on legislature on their behalf. In my local government, many elected official's have been accused of many crimes tying them with corporations in the state of Hawaii. (Andy Mirikatani, The OHA Board of Trustee's as examples). What I am basically implying is that corporate America has much more influence than the "average American".

Also arguing on behalf on Che is the society of the Native American's. They did not have concepts of "land ownership" and "property rights". They believed that the land was basically owned by everyone and that the society's survival was dependent on the lands survival. If any of you need more proof, I will use Native Hawaiians as an example. Even though they possessed a monarchy social system, they too possessed the conception that land could not be "owned" and was rather borrowed from the 'aina'.

I believe (hopefully) that Sprayber and myself possess some sort of agreement on America's politics. If I interpret Spray's viewpoint correctly, he takes the side of the majority...meaning that if the majority decide something is correct, he will not interfere. I personally identify with "working class" America.

I do believe that America is so stygmatized by "Communism" that it is already inbred into our nature to abhor it. Therefore, as I have proposed in a previous thread, Communistic idealism should be reformed into a 'new' political party...or at least have the established parties incorporate communistic idealism into their political agenda's.

As I have already stated in numerous threads, I break away from traditional communistic idea's of violence into more gradual procession into communist-friendly policies. Just because it is almost ingrained in American society to be aversive to socialist/communist idealism, this does not mean that we (socialist/communists) can supercede this prejudice and eventually establish some "rights-for-the-people".

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by blackice
Around here I think people are simply just tired of the obliarchy....

Okay, I'll bite. What's an obliarchy?

[Frankychan]

Originally posted by Tingkai


Okay, I'll bite. What's an obliarchy?

you're brutal....I think he means oligarchy. (sarcasm put aside )