The EU's position on the ME conflict is anti-Israel/antisemitic ?

[Jaakko]

I don't see us disagreeing too much about Northern Ireland, Dino. I was merely giving an example of where heavy use of force didn't work. As I asked already, could it be that this is how European leaders see Israel's situation (ie. not winnable by force)?

Reading the statements kindly provided by Roland, it seems quite silly to argue that the EU is against Israel's right to self-defence. The text is all about the methods and their consequences, and the affirmation of the right of self-defence is quite explicit.
Remember that going into the territories with tanks isn't the only way Israel can defend itself.

So, if these statements don't mean what they say, then what is the correct way to interpret them?

[Eli]

Oh no, he's back.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Jaakko
I don't see us disagreeing too much about Northern Ireland, Dino. I was merely giving an example of where heavy use of force didn't work.

Short of building a wall/fence completely around the territories, an idea I have only just now heard being discussed in Israel (hopefully the Poly Israelis can confirm or deny this part), I don't see any other way that they could have responded to the Passover attack in Netanya given Arafat's complicity in these type of attacks.

Reading the statements kindly provided by Roland, it seems quite silly to argue that the EU is against Israel's right to self-defence.

I will admit to the possibility that I maybe limited in my thinking. How would the EU like to see Israel respond to military attacks against its territory who's sole aim is to kill as many citizens as possible?

Why should they be held to a higher standard than the former British Prime Minister David Lloyd George when he stated that he would not shake hands with murder?

[Jaakko]

For my part, I'd just redouble all the intelligence efforts, avoiding any use of force that worsens the Pals' living conditions. Infiltrate and compromise the terrorist orgs, make them struggle for every bomber they send. Prosecute those you can, in a civilian court, hold the rest in a stalemate. At the same time encourage moderate political movements within Palestine, prepping the way for a leadership that can be properly negotiated with.
Then, finally, when the terrorists have nothing to offer except useless struggle in face of growing standards of life, try to build a lasting peace.
And most importantly, don't let the damn bombers destroy the peace process, even when they succeed in a strike!

And Mr. George had to pretty much eat his words, didn't he (well ok, those after him)?

EDIT: Hi Eli! Do you by any chance remember what particular matter we argued about last time?

[Eli]

Originally posted by Jaakko
EDIT: Hi Eli! Do you by any chance remember what particular matter we argued about last time?

I cant figure out if it's a rhetorical question or not, so I'll answer it. No.

[CyberGnu]

Ancient history? Then let's talk about the summer of 2000. Almost everyone agrees there should be a Palestinian state and at Camp David, Israel agreed, offering to return up to 96% of the West Bank and Gaza and more dramatically, East Jerusalem. Incredibly, it was still not enough. Yasser Arafat not only refused it outright, but he strangely offered no counter-proposal for negotiation. But then Arafat has always believed a nation must "be born in blood."

Ah, let's rehash this old lie...

BTW, Friedman is not exactly a good source... He makes Bush look unbiased.


Dino, regarding whether this conflict is a war or not, it is actually Israel that refuses to call it a war. the reason is that if a state of war is declared, they would have to adhere to the geneva convention. As the world is set up today, civilians have a much better protection if a state of war is declared... Which is also the reason Israel refuses to call the palestinian areas 'occupied', instead of 'administrated'.

It's all part of the propaganda game, which is one of the areas Israelis are really good at.


Chris, there is a lot of miscomprehension in your post, but this one really stood out:

Either you have forgotten, or you don't know, they NEVER were Palestian lands.
They REJECTED the UN partion of 29 novermber 1947, and NEVER accepted it, so they NEVER had title to ANY land.
Sorry to disillusion you, but LEAGALLY Israel doesn't have to give them squat, and is withen it's rights to police the area ANY way they chose.

So, if I give away part of your house without your premission, but you refuse to sign the papers, I can give away ALL of your house?

Now, even if we assume that the UN has a mandate to give away land which belongs to other people, it only gave away 50% of palestine. In the 67 war, Israel stole ANOTHER 28%. All the palestinians are asking for is 22%, and Israel is still too greedy to allow them that.

Don't let nti-semitism cloud your mind. Well, antisemitism towards arabs, that is, since they are aslo one of the semitic(?) tribes.

As far as I know, there is only one anti-semitic country in the world today, and that is the US... Where a vast majority of the population believes that arabs are just dirty untermensch...

[Sliparac]

Originally posted by CyberGnu

Don't let nti-semitism cloud your mind. Well, antisemitism towards arabs, that is, since they are aslo one of the semitic(?) tribes.

As far as I know, there is only one anti-semitic country in the world today, and that is the US... Where a vast majority of the population believes that arabs are just dirty untermensch...

Wow.

Did you just learn about the semitic tribes and want to show everyone how "smart" you are?

Anti-semitic = anti-jewish and it's been like that since the late 19th century IIRC

[CyberGnu]

Nah, I use my PhD for that...

Sometimes you can jar people into start thinking. It obviously didn't work on you, sliparec... I recommend it, though.

[Sliparac]

Originally posted by CyberGnu
Nah, I use my PhD for that...

Sometimes you can jar people into start thinking. It obviously didn't work on you, sliparec... I recommend it, though.

What?

[CyberGnu]

Thinking. You haven't started yet, I see. Try to force those neurons to move, and maybe it will work. Electrochock therapy might be an option if you can't get it started on your own.

[Sliparac]

Originally posted by CyberGnu
Thinking. You haven't started yet, I see. Try to force those neurons to move, and maybe it will work. Electrochock therapy might be an option if you can't get it started on your own.

Are you trying to "jar me into start thinking"?

[CyberGnu]

There you go!

It's working!

[Sliparac]

All hail electrocock therapy!

[CyberGnu]

I know, I've been trying to convince my girlfriend to allow me my own defibrillator to get up in the morning!

[Chris 62]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by CyberGnu

Chris, there is a lot of miscomprehension in your post, but this one really stood out:

I'm affraid the misunderstandings are by you, old boy.
Israel has the right to exsist, whether you believe it or not.

So, if I give away part of your house without your premission, but you refuse to sign the papers, I can give away ALL of your house?

So, if I try to burn down YOUR house, and kill you and your family, I can show up 50 years later and say I want it all back?

Now, even if we assume that the UN has a mandate to give away land which belongs to other people, it only gave away 50% of palestine. In the 67 war, Israel stole ANOTHER 28%. All the palestinians are asking for is 22%, and Israel is still too greedy to allow them that.

Your posts are flawed, as they always are.
THEIR NEVER WAS A PALESTINE. EVER.
It is not possible to "steal" what never was.

Don't let nti-semitism cloud your mind. Well, antisemitism towards arabs, that is, since they are aslo one of the semitic(?) tribes.

The phrase is used exclusivly towards jews, as you well know.
BTW, try calling a Palestianian "semetic".
I might also, add, your mind is among the most clouded that posts on apolyton.

As far as I know, there is only one anti-semitic country in the world today, and that is the US...

Wake up and smell the coffee sonny, the entire Islamic world would love to pummel Israel into the dirt.
It might also be fun to add that Eurpoe continues to have an increasing amount of anti-semitic crimes committed every day.

Where a vast majority of the population believes that arabs are just dirty untermensch...

Those are your words friend.
how do we know?
Because only a fool would post them.