Neo-Nazism and Muslim fundamentalism. What do you think?

[Sava]

Originally posted by Monk
You can't be left wing without some kind of social conciousness and belief in equality and libertarians have neither. And they're actually regressive, not progressive. Why else would they then focus so much on constitutional rights?

Again, that's a gray area, they aren't fully left, or fully right, but they definitely aren't moderate. Because their wanted changes would mean an extreme change in the system, they are classified as radical (left).

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Sava
Libertarians want to change the system to institute more freedom. This would be a radically different change that has not occured before. Hence, on the left.

I think most libertarians would disagree with you, though some definately would agree with you. Chalk it up to an argument in favor of their political square.

[Sava]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


I think most libertarians would disagree with you, though some definately would agree with you. Chalk it up to an argument in favor of their political square.

I'm speaking about libertarian ideology, not people who consider themselves libertarian. Just like all you commies separate Stalin and Maoists from Marx.

[chequita guevara]

Ideologically you may be correct, depending on the flavor of libertariainism. I would say that more correctly, they are all over the map.

[Sava]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Ideologically you may be correct, depending on the flavor of libertariainism. I would say that more correctly, they are all over the map.

Yeah, my conclusion was based on the "choose one side" idea. I can't put them in the middle because they aren't moderate by any means .

[Az]

Originally posted by Kropotkin
Since you quoted me I thought it might have been implied.

And I said that their might be a couple of links here and their but that the importance those shouldn't be overestimated. You claim that there's a cooperation on a global scale (ie a conspiracy just like that one between the commies, ZOG and the rest of the jews ).

I said I don't believe that they're like in full cooperation.
What I do think is that the thought of close cooperation is not outrageous to both groups, and both have done so numerous time around the world.

I never said it was impossible. I said that a long term strategic alliance between a bulk of far right wing groups and Islamic fundamentalism seems highly unlikely. They do share a commun grudge against Jews and the political establishment in Europe and the US.

also against communism. As it is a jewish plot , yada yada yada.

Surely they can work with the concept that my enemies enemy is my friend and thus make tactical alliances and share information but that's a quite far from a global alliance. We must remember that the far right is a very fragmented movement (some of their parties consists of one or a handful of persons), they can hardly unite with their own so I can't see why they should be able to get along with Islamists.

well if they weren't fragmented I'd get a gun permit.

but this is what mainly kept the aliances in WWI ( no ideology whatsoever, simple greed) , and WWII ( stalin working with capitalism ), but still , you won't call those minor clashes. So this shouldn't be ignored.


che : I am not familiar . but the is also another example (similar , at least , of arabs and Nazis cooperating ):
a Nazi criminal is still taking refuge in Damascus. He was Assad Sr.'s advisor for many years.

[Kropotkin]

Originally posted by Dalgetti
but this is what mainly kept the aliances in WWI ( no ideology whatsoever, simple greed) , and WWII ( stalin working with capitalism ), but still , you won't call those minor clashes. So this shouldn't be ignored.

It don't think you could or should compare states to small (altrough dangerous) ideological movements. State policies are usually way more pragmatic.

Let's what and see what happens if Le Pen wins the election...

[Az]

well I wouldn't call Neo-nazi movements small . neither muslim fundamentalist. after all they did put one hell of a show on Sept. 11...

[Kropotkin]

It's fragments that are cooperating. Not all nazis with all Islamic fundies. It all comes down to the definition of "small" though...

[Az]

well , you couldn't say that all nazis cooperatie with all Islamic fundies, even because of the fact that they're not monolithic groups. but It's not because ones oppose it , while the others don't in their (not at all ) respective groups, but there is not alway a common "jew" to target.

[nationalist]

Originally posted by Dalgetti
also I don't think you'll find lefties that rejoiced 9-11... ...

Yeah right. I'm in America, and I encountered leftists celebrating 9-11. Believe me, that meeting didn't go too well.

[Az]

are you sure they were lefties? or were they just .. muslims?

you know , those checkered scarfs can be confusing.

[nationalist]

Originally posted by Dalgetti
are you sure they were lefties? or were they just .. muslims?

you know , those checkered scarfs can be confusing.

Nope, the Muslims had enough sense to lie low. These were your run of the mill, purple haired, Buddy Holly glases wearing, spoiled rich, out of touch, white boy, godless, American Communist. You see, here in the U.S. most leftists are middle class or above. I am the poor son of a steelworker. I am right wing, so is my father, and so are the other people that he works with in the factory. If they saw the communists here supporting labor, the workers would just laugh at them, because the students have no notion of what it is to be a working man or to be poor.

[Az]

then they're idiots.

[Natan]

Mr. Fun: By no means am I comparing Arabs and Nazis. But it is true that Nazis and neo-Nazis do not like Arabs period, regardless of their political beleifs. And it is also true that they sometimes find it convenient to cooperate with certain Arabs, that is, those who can offer incentives to or who share goals with the neo-Nazi movement in question.

Che: Yeah, Syria too. But like I said, it's a marriage of convenience on both sides, just like the relationship with the Communists.