Europe's Shame

[Ecthy]

Originally posted by Bugs ****ing Bunny
Well it's fairly academic. The latest refugee camp debacle will settle his reputation, one way or another.

We don't know what really happened there, and I don't buy into any story of either side. I'll wait with any comments until I've got reports from international organizations or at least decent statements. Until then I'd be careful with comments like that, although that man deserves more than a Hague trial should the truth be proven less than fitting into humanist ideals.

[Chris 62]

Originally posted by Bugs ****ing Bunny
Well it's fairly academic. The latest refugee camp debacle will settle his reputation, one way or another.

If they really want Sharon. they should look at unit 101 from the early 50s.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by BeBro


I agree it is inexcusable, but these things are done either by neonazi idiots or by radicalized members of Arab minorities. Extremists exist in nearly every country, remember the Oklahoma bombing. You can´t say Europe in general is antisemitic because of criminal actions of certain individuals...

The number of actions in France in particular is becoming extermely troubling. And its not just the actions, its the apparent low priority the French state is giving to this. German Jews may not live in fear, but apparently French Jews do, and they protested en masse recently in response.

And its also the one-sided view of the middle east, in particular the vicious anti-Israel rhetoric employed, including some traditionally anti-semitic themes. It is necassary for Europeans of good will to repudiate not just anti-semitic acts, but anti-semitic rhetoric as well, just as people of good will in the US have repudiated anti-muslim rhetoric.

LOTM

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Ecthelion


pa-ra-noi-a

did I get the syllables right?

I guess my problem is that first you say that only americans say there is an anti-semitism problem in Europe, and when someone cites European Jews you discount them. Do they not count as Europeans?? Here in the US white people of good will have learned that if blacks claim to be afraid, or to experience racism, that needs to be taken seriously. We can disoute the statistics, or how much is only perception rather than reality, or even self-interest, but we cannot simply say its paranoia and that black people dont count as witnesses to the state of race relations in America. That you CAN say such things with regard to European Jews is troubling.

Note please - I fully realize that few europeans are genuine anti-semites, and many are fully people of good will. I do not think it helps matters to pretend that there is no problem, however, or to resort to name calling to anyone who cites a problem.


LOTM

[Ecthy]

Nopey, also many Germans (and not only German Jews) als oclaim there's antisemitism in Germany.

[Bereta_Eder]

There's anti-semetism all over Europe.
Maybe fewer in Germany because they have worked really hard to combat it.


It gets minor forms like: "Jews... hmmrf..." to forms like "Jews run things".

Do I feel it is a minor problem in comparison to the anti-immigration movement and the racism... yes. (but I can be wrong).

[Natan]

LOTM, exactly what "traditonal anti-Semitic themes" do you see in the "viscious anti-Israel rhetoric?"

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by Natan



You know, NATO let those KLA thugs rampage through Kosovo - do you think Tony Blair is a war criminal or too stupid to hold office?

Both. What's your point here?

By the way, why is it that Sharon prevents peace in the Middle East because of Sabra and Shattila, but Arafat's involvement in terrorism for 30 years doesn't?

Oh, it does. However there's statisically less chance of two irredeemable ****head's heads exploding spontaneously than there would be if there was only one. Therefore the election of Sharon was a bad move.

[Natan]

Originally posted by Bugs ****ing Bunny


Both. What's your point here?


Oh, it does. However there's statisically less chance of two irredeemable ****head's heads exploding spontaneously than there would be if there was only one. Therefore the election of Sharon was a bad move.

I suppose I can't disagree with consistency. I just wanted to make sure you applied this standard to other leaders as well.

[Seeker]

"Maybe fewer in Germany because they have worked really hard to combat it."

German anti-Semitism has few targets within their own borders anymore I guess.

I guess they just worked really hard to ...?

Don't let the Germans off too easy, my cousin is half-Japanese and living in Frankfurt, she tells me in her e-mails that there is always some level of discrimination against 'foreign looking' people, daily.

I think the facts are 'pro-Israel' nowadays. Provocation as it was to go to the temple mount, Arafat has shown he is a terrorist and suicide bomber creator, and a killer of innocents.

IMO, he should be 'removed' and and the next PA leader should be an Israeli backed puppet.

An Israeli 'patsy' in charge would allow moderates to emerge in the PA, backed by muscle. If democratic and humane leadership won't spontaneously emerge from the Palestinian people, then the Israelis should impose a friendly government.