Europe's Shame

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Lonestar
Seems to be pretty accurate.

Except the arcticle does not mention the fact that most of these indeed shameful things (like attacks on synagogues) are done by absolute minorities and criminals. The new fascism/nazism thing is totally nonsense. Nowhere in Europe such a policy would be accepted by a majority, extreme parties which have such positions have hardly a chance in most European countries. Even Austria (after Haider´s successes) cannot be called a fascist country yet.

[Spiffor]

Lincoln :
AT first, I thought it was you who were writing this. At the beginning of the post -about the antisemitic actions in Europe, such as burning synagogues-, I thought : "It's dreadful to recieve lessonns from Americans, but he's right".
But, as the article goes on, it doesn't rightly condemn the obviously antisemitic actions, it does condemn Arafat, and takes any criticism on Israel or the Jews as antisemitism. I'm sorry, but saying "Sharon is extremely dangerous for his country and the region stability" is not an antisemitic statement, while burning a synagogue is.

Although the article starts well, it has then an extremely dangerous trend many Jews use : as they were victims of the holocaust, they have every right, we have to forgive whatever they do. This kind of thinking is called "victimization" : as you suffered from something in the past, you refuse any negative responsiblity for something you do in the present. Very childish actually.

Secondly, this article is simplistic about the hate against Arafat : he's presented as the biggest culprit of the war in Israel, which is obviously wrong : the war has a shared responsiblity, and Arafat is one of the culprits, as Sharon is, as Barak's unableness was, as muslim extremists are (for the record : the fundamentalist Hamas, which signs most terrorism is not bound with the political movement of liberation which is the PLO), as jewish extremists are and so on. Any reasonable person will understand this hate against Arafat only is either pure stupidity or pure lies.

At last, the article is dreadly one sided. I suppose the Israeli live in fear each time they're in the bus. But only paranoids among Europeans Jews are really afraid whenever they leave home : I'm a Jewish currently in Paris, I know a bunch of other Jews here, and they still live normally (I'm not forgiving the antisemitic actions here in Europe, they're shocking... But it doesn't create a total fear, happily). The article forgets however about the daily fear of the Palestinians, which is as unbearable as the fear of the Israeli : the Palestiinians don't know if they'll still have their home at the end of the day, if they'll hve anything to feed their children, if someone in the family will be arrested or killed by the Israeli. The author forgets this essential thing : unbearable fear is present in the 2 sides of the border.

So, as a conclusion, Lincoln : this article is completely irrelevant, save for the very beginning, where the author says, we Europeans should be ashamed of the antismeitic actions on our territory

[Spiffor]

Oh yeah, if you're interested with this "victimization" thing, there is a book I loved which develops this idea... Truly helped me to maturate and to take respondibility for my actions :

La Tentation de l'innocence
Pascal Bruckner

(Sorry, I don't know the English title, but I'm pretty sure it has been translated in english. It isn't centered on the question of Israel and Palestine, but on "victimization" in ous modern societies)

[David Floyd]

The End of Innocence, maybe?

[Lincoln]

"So, as a conclusion, Lincoln : this article is completely irrelevant, save for the very beginning, where the author says, we Europeans should be ashamed of the antismeitic actions on our territory"

I don't know if I would use the word "completely" but of course it is exaggerated. I think that the true antisemetism that exists still in Europe and elsewhere is something that need to be taken seriously. Burning synogues is inexcusable, especially in areas that are far from the middle east conflict. If Europe has learned anything from the past then they need to firmly renounce this and prosecute the offenders.

[David Floyd]

I think that the true antisemetism that exists still in Europe and elsewhere is something that need to be taken seriously.

Propose a solution. Do you advocate banning anti-semitism?
Burning synagogues is already a crime - arson. Let's not bring "thought crime" into this.

[Ecthy]

There is no such thing as antisemitism in Europe, at least not on a large scale. And especially not worse than in the US It's just ludicrous how an American tries to tell me what I think and which people I hate based on their ethnicity That'll be the day, a "middle-class" yank telling me what life is like over here...

[Lincoln]

The author of the article is a European.

[Ecthy]

1. censored.

2. So it's a damn traitor

3. Seriously, how can he write such a bull? Jews are scared in German cities and others? That's news to me.

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Lincoln
I don't know if I would use the word "completely" but of course it is exaggerated. I think that the true antisemetism that exists still in Europe and elsewhere is something that need to be taken seriously. Burning synogues is inexcusable, especially in areas that are far from the middle east conflict. If Europe has learned anything from the past then they need to firmly renounce this and prosecute the offenders.

I agree it is inexcusable, but these things are done either by neonazi idiots or by radicalized members of Arab minorities. Extremists exist in nearly every country, remember the Oklahoma bombing. You can´t say Europe in general is antisemitic because of criminal actions of certain individuals...

[Lincoln]

"You can´t say Europe in general is antisemitic because of criminal actions of certain individuals..."

That's true

[Ecthy]

Yes it is. And I can only repeat, anti-semitism in Europe is not stronger on a large scale than in the US or any othe rplace on Earth that we would call civilized. These recent actions are exceptions! And I'm not just closing my eyes, because it's just not the time to scream out loudly. If the number of acts against Jewish or other minorities increases to a considerable amount, I'll be the first to recognize the false tendencies and stand up against them!

But it is just not the time for it. It would beparanoid to see any anti-semitism.

My favourite one is that "latent anti-semitism in the German society" as stated by German Jews. They're just agitating and being demagogues whenever they can, damn bastards. () But seriously, their ways of dealing with such issues are just ridiculous. It seems they have it way too good in life, you just need to say he's wrong with this or that and voilà the Central Council of Jews in Germany has a new most wanted.

To sum my point up - 3 skinheads blasting a synagogue as an exceptional case are not a sign for a big hole in European societies. It just means there are sick people out there, but that's nothing new.

[Ramo]

Burning synogues is inexcusable, especially in areas that are far from the middle east conflict. If Europe has learned anything from the past then they need to firmly renounce this and prosecute the offenders

People who burn down synagogues aren't being prosecuted?

Do you have a source?

[Lincoln]

"People who burn down synagogues aren't being prosecuted? "

Who said that? I was just implying that there needs to be firm prosecution. I probably should have said that this needs to be taken seriously and not passed off as simply normal crime that is routinely prosecuted. There is clearly a trend developing and it need to be nipped in the bud. Basically I agree with Dino Doc.

[Ecthy]

Originally posted by Lincoln
There is clearly a trend developing and it need to be nipped in the bud.

Bullcrap.

Now let me dig up DD's post, I'm sure it must be full of sh!t.