Which Civilization has been the biggest bunch of bastards throughout history?

[ranskaldan]

Originally posted by Chris 62
I agree, but I see it often, this thread is a perfect example.
Instead of discussion, I'm told I don't know what I'm talking about, because I dared to say Islam sucks.
Sorry boys and girls, it does.

Actually, in many ways, it does.
But so does everyone else, for that matter.
I certainly wouldn't agree that they're the one who suck the most.
Every civ sucks at one point or another.

[Chris 62]

A quick look at the net via seach engine turns up some interesting facts.

It was put foward how "tolerant" islam is to other Religions living in an Islamic state.

Let's put an end to that, through Islamic law:

1) Zimmis (non-Muslims) are not allowed to build new churches, temples, or synagogues. They are allowed to renovate old churches or houses of worship provided they do not allow to add any new construction. "Old churches" are those which existed prior to Islamic conquests and are included in a peace accord by Muslims. Construction of any church, temple, or synagogue in the Arab Peninsula (Saudi Arabia) is prohibited. It is the land of the Prophet and only Islam should prevail there. Yet, Muslims, if they wish, are permitted to demolish all non-Muslim houses of worship in any land they conquer.

2) Zimmis are not allowed to pray or read their sacred books out loud at home or in churches, lest Muslims hear their prayers.

3) Zimmis are not allowed to print their religious books or sell them in public places and markets. They are allowed to publish and sell them among their own people, in their churches and temples.

4) Zimmis are not allowed to install the cross on their houses or churches since it is a symbol of infidelity.

5) Zimmis are not permitted to broadcast or display their ceremonial religious rituals on radio or television or to use the media or to publish any picture of their religious ceremonies in newspaper and magazines.

6) Zimmis are not allowed to congregate in the streets during their religious festivals; rather, each must quietly make his way to his church or temple.

7) Zimmis are not allowed to join the army unless there is indispensable need for them in which case they are not allowed to assume leadership positions but are considered mercenaries.

http://www.answering-islam.org/NonMuslims/rights.htm

The last time I looked, no such midieval restriction exist for Muslims in Christian states such as Britain, the USa, or other EU countries.

[ranskaldan]

Timeframe alert:
700-1600.

We're taking history as a whole, and not just recent years, when Christian countries have secularized.

[DinoDoc]

I would like to add that I think that while I do think that Chris62 is being overly general in his view of Islam, the answering Islam link is proof of that. He does bring up valid points about what bastards some of the "Islamic" empires were.

[Chris 62]

More fun and games from the evr tolerant Muslim world:

The Exclusion of the Jews and Christians
from the Arabian Peninsular

http://debate.org.uk/topics/history/xstnc-7.html

Want more?

These are all backed up with Koran references, BTW.

Still think Islam is so 'tolerant"?

Read this:

http://www.domini.org/openbook/

It seems to be popular nowadays to "overlook" Islam's long history of bigotry and brutality, but it's there if you open your eyes to it.

BTW, I laugh when people try to use the crusades, tiny piddling wars, to justify in any way the brutality of Islam.

Trying to compare the Turkish attackes in the Balkans to them is laughable in scale alone.

If Islam hadn't been fighting the Mongols at the time, they would have crushed the Crusaders easily.

[Chris 62]

Still need more?

I could keep this up all night:

To Kill and To Die In The Name of Allah

http://www.thequran.com/flyer/flyer3.html

How about how other life is viewed by Islamic law, and how it is "respected"

http://debate.org.uk/topics/history/xstnc-5.html

When your through with your kid games of trying to match the west to this, let me know.

[Chris 62]

One more thing, all the sites I posted are careful to refer to exact passages in Islamic law, so they are not biased, as I was accused of earlier by some misguided people.

[DinoDoc]

Chris: Islam was not born in a cultural and historical vaccum. It took root in societies accustomed to long centuries of warfare against the civilian population. The tribal conflicts of the Middle East and North Africa were no more enlightened or free of atrocities than those of the Roman Empire. Given that reality, whatever the compassionate exhortations of Islam, it was battling against long standing military traditions that quite simply could not be eradicated by good intentions.

If you really want to look at the atrocities that the West committed vs those committed by Islam, I would look at the problems that precipitated the Pax Dei & Treuga Dei movements, the cordon sanitaire Louis XIV tried to create on each of France's frontiers, etc.

[Transcend]

Originally posted by Chris 62
I'm not here to give you a history lesson boy, go to school and learn something.

You finally show your true face: an arrogant jerk.

[Chris 62]

Dino, the people here needed a splash of water to the face, they got it into their heads that Islam is this happy place where all is good and everyone lives in peace and harmony, and that the rest of the world did all the damage.

I can give you tons of wrong doing from France, or Spain, Britain, the USA, you name it.

But for consistant militancy, cruelty, midievalism, barbarism, look no further then Islam.

The west grew up, and now enjoys many democracies and a fine standard of living.

Can we say the same for Islam?

France and Britain wern't at war with the world for most of their lives, but islam is and has been.

[Chris 62]

Originally posted by Transcend


You finally show your true face: an arrogant jerk.

Nice try child, but look at the posts.

Or get someone to read them to you if the words are to big for you.

Loser.

[Transcend]

Originally posted by Chris 62

The west grew up, and now enjoys many democracies and a fine standard of living.

Can we say the same for Islam?

So what? It doesn't change the fact that from 600AD to 1700AD Europeans were the bigger and badder bastards.

[DinoDoc]

One more thing, all the sites I posted are careful to refer to exact passages in Islamic law,

What's your point? I can find sites fairly quickly, such as this one, that site exact passages in Islamic law that come up with the exact opposite conclusion. What exactly does it prove though?

[Chris 62]

Proves that islam is not the utopia some here tried to claim.

[Transcend]

Originally posted by Chris 62
Nice try child, but look at the posts.

Or get someone to read them to you if the words are to big for you.

Loser.

How about your posts? Spreading lies and still behaves like a history professor?

Hypocrite.