Christianity's Great Achievments

[Ecowiz Returns]

Originally posted by Ethelred
Which in no way makes the verses I posted go away. The are still there and they are still aproval of slavery. I can't help it if the Bible contradicts itself. I only pointed to the approval of slavery in the Bible. I leave the contradictions for other discussions.

Now that's exactly what is wrong in you argument.

The verses you posted have two particular characteristics you may not want to realise:
1 - They are from the Old Testament: therefore, they must be interpreted according to the message Christ brought, that completed it. That, in a Christian view, of course. But is the Christian view we are talking about.

2. The New Testament's message (the main source of Christian morals), as DinoDoc so well exemplified, clearly condemns slave traders and, basicly all that do not treat others as they want to be trated themselves (ie, the Golden Rule that IS in the Bible).

Therefore, I dare you to present a verse, in the New Testament saying it is OK to have a slave. Than we may talk.

Otherwize, you should use more caution in making claims based on the verses in the Bible. You are not talking to Christian Fundamentalists, you know.

[SociableMartian]

Greatest achievements? The butchering of millions of native americans, muslims, africans, and other people from across the world. I for one won't be unhappy when it's finally eradicated.

[Ecowiz Returns]

Oh, and I forgot to say that I voted on Human Dignity.

All that posted that earlier philosophers and religions also highlight Human Dignity are right. I would like to remember those that refered the Classic Philosofers the fact that one of the main reasons we know that some of them defended Human Dignity is because the Medieval Catholic thinkers highlighted it.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Ethelred
A smiley doesn't change it. You were the one being negative towards a specific person.

Still with the short term memory problems. I'm still here to talk about it with you when you're ready. I'm mean if you can not even remember what you post in this thread, there is a serious problem.

The are still there and they are still aproval of slavery.

You have shown that the Bible the practice was regulated throughout the Bible. Which I never disputed. However, the verses you cited do not keep the practice frombeing immoral according to Christian theology.

More food for thought:

Luke 4:18 "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed,

PS. It does seem that I was wrong though. I did find a verse which I'm suprised that you did not highlight earlier in your quest to prove me wrong (Genesis 9:25-27) as it would have made the case better than the Exodus and Leviticus regulations on the practice. However, I will stand by my statement that this doesn't save the pro-slavery theological arguement from falling by the wayside for the reasons that I have outlined earlier.

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by SociableMartian
Greatest achievements? The butchering of millions of native americans, muslims, africans, and other people from across the world. I for one won't be unhappy when it's finally eradicated.

What a moron.

[SociableMartian]

What is moronic about what I said? Christianity was used by the Spanish to convert/execute millions of native americans, as I said. The crusades resulted in the butchering of millions of innocents. Do I even need to go on? It's too depressing for words.

[SlowwHand]

While it is true than many wars have religious roots, to imply that all the unjusts done to Native Americans (as an example) were done solely by "Christians" is, as I stated, moronic.

[SociableMartian]

Yes of course not all crimes were by christians against the native americans, just 99% or so. Unless you can give me evidence that the US was colonised by a non-christian nation.

[SlowwHand]

You don't believe in Creationism.
Does that mean that throughout history, none of your family believed? Not particularly.
Not all the founding members of the U.S. came here for religious reasons, but let's say they did.
Does that mean that all these creationist's families stayed believers? Again, not particularly.
Don't paint with such a broad brush.

[SociableMartian]

Christianity is still by far the dominant religion in the US today. The church still influences the state to some degree (as in many socially backward countries). So I think it's reasonable for me to assume that the christian beliefs (of prejudice and extermination of non-believers) stayed with the settlers and influenced their politics with and treatment of the native americans (and if we look at their history we see the same pattern, prejudice and extermination).

By the way, the only reason my ancestors believed in Christianity was the brainwashing the church exposed the population of europe to, in order to secure their power and control the population.

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by SociableMartian
Yes of course not all crimes were by christians against the native americans, just 99% or so. Unless you can give me evidence that the US was colonised by a non-christian nation.

Great conclusion. Since all European countries were Christian at that time Christianity is to blame.

Or Europe? Or the White man? Or the White Christian European?

[SociableMartian]

Christianity was used as the excuse by the conqustadiores for example, for the brutal killing/forced conversion (and destruction of their culture) of the native americans. Of course the crusades and others were pure holy wars.

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by SociableMartian
Christianity was used as the excuse by the conqustadiores for example, for the brutal killing/forced conversion (and destruction of their culture) of the native americans. Of course the crusades and others were pure holy wars.

So who is guilty, Christianity, or the people who (ab-)used it for their own egoistic purposes?

[SociableMartian]

Both, as Christianity helped brainwash them into thinking they could commit such atrocities in the name of god.

[BeBMan]

Well I agree that Christians acted in that way. But when you say "Christianity helped brainwash them" it gets tricky, because even if this happened it was carried out by humans. Then you would have to prove that the humans who did this followed Christian ideas when they used Christianity as excuse/reason to do crimes...

Some would simply say their behaviour (if allowed/advocated by the chruch or not) was against the idea of Christianity, even when they believed otherwise.