Are you prepared to die for your country?

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by David Floyd


I have nothing against volunteerism - especially as I would have a non-combat job

You think so?

Lesson #1 No matter what you do in the army, you are first and foremost a footsoldier. If you think you will be exempt don't bother joining.

I risked my life in ways that you have no idea of. Just BEING in the military is a risk.

And I didn't say that to mischaracterize you, I said it because you have strong beliefs, as do Wiglaf and MrFun. whether I agree with you or not, I respect your right to have them.

[David Floyd]

You should have the moral integrity to do it on your own.

I suppose that greatly depends on the war, doesn't it?

[KrazyHorse]

I think I'd jump on the metaphorical grenade, but having never directly faced it I have to wonder if I've actually got the stones for it.

[KrazyHorse]

I also don't know what I'd do the first time I had to pull the trigger on "the enemy". I have a low tolerance for human suffering, despite being rather cold-blooded intellectually.

[Sirotnikov]

david, yes, it obviously depends on the war, however, i don't think one has the right to pick the wars his country has.

unless ones country behaves like nazi germany, he should support it.

and yes, more often than not, i will support tribalism over moralism.

moralism is futile IMO.

[TCO]

KH, one purpose of training and exercises is to get you used to the idea of pulling the trigger. When the balloon goes up, most trained soldiers will follow through. At least that has been the US experience since WW2. (previous wars had problems with what you are talking about.)

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
No matter what Jane Fonda said at your school, David; South Vietnam was a seperate country than North Vietnam. They wanted help.

It was only a seperate country because in 1956, the South threw out the election which would have turned power over to the Communists and united the whole country. It was a not a real country, but a tiny elite violently forcing it's will upon the vast majority of the people of Vietnam.

South Korea doesn't want to be communist.
Do you blame them? Look how badly the North sucks.

They did during the 40s and 50s. The situation was almost identical, in that the US imported dictator refused to allow the results of the elections to turn his people out of power. When finally forced by the US to have "free" election (the left was still banned, but at least the moderates were allowed to take part), his people were resoundingly defeated. And only a couple of months later, full scale civil war breaks out.

[KrazyHorse]

GP

I know. The fact that ~1/2 of all soldiers just couldn't kill their fellow man without having to be prodded into it by 8 weeks of carefully designed "toughening up" actually gives me some faith in humanity.

[TCO]

My basic take is similar to Dissident's. I think I inhabit a wonderful civilization and would defend it against some bully. (Cold War, Bin Ladin, etc.)

When I was at USNA, I lived for one year in a room named for one of our Medal of Honor winners (Reem). The plaque had his (pasthoumous) award citation. He led a platoon up a hill in Korea and jumped on a hand grenade to save his comrades. The grenade landed amongst him and his NCO's as they were planning how to get up the heavily contested hill.

Staying in that room always made me think about what it takes to step up if your number is called. (Mine never was.)

[TCO]

Re: GP

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
I know. The fact that ~1/2 of all soldiers just couldn't kill their fellow man without having to be prodded into it by 8 weeks of carefully designed "toughening up" actually gives me some faith in humanity.

Agree. Our fellow men have both aggression and compassion in their hearts. Men are not angels but they have some original "good" with the original sin.

[Guardian]

Originally posted by Sprayber

When it comes down to actually fighting in real life war, your not exactly thinking about flag and country. Your thinking about the guy on your left and the guy on your right. That's what men die for in combat.

Exactly!

It isn't about politics and which government is right or wrong, it's about not letting your buddies down! Of course, those who have never been in the service wouldn't understand...

I probably wouldn't like it much, but I'd go.
Not for the government and whatever policies they may or may not be pursuing at the time, but for my country and my people - and the other guys in my unit.

[Guardian]

Re: GP

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
The fact that ~1/2 of all soldiers just couldn't kill their fellow man without having to be prodded into it by 8 weeks of carefully designed "toughening up" actually gives me some faith in humanity.

I still remember my first time shooting at a man-shaped target.
Couldn't do it at first. Pretended to have a problem with my rifle.
Then I imagined an SS officer pointing a gun at a dear friend of mine... Got angry and started shooting... Didn't stop until there was no ammo left...

[Urban Ranger]

I rather make the other side die for their country, if you get my drift. But then, I will only participate in a war that I feel is morally just.


Siro,

Tribalism is dangerous. Consider the Nazis and see if you still want to support tribalism.

[Immortal Wombat]

No, I'd be no use dead. Hell, I'd be no use fighting. Give me a job away from the frontline where I can help the country with my brain not my trigger finger.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
I also don't know what I'd do the first time I had to pull the trigger on "the enemy". I have a low tolerance for human suffering, despite being rather cold-blooded intellectually.

Aim for the head and everybody's happy.