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  • Race differences

    Here is an interesting article I found. I wonder if its possible to discuss it with descending into hysteria?


    Race, Rushton, And Us
    Getting Used To What We Can't Change



    One marvels that a creed widely doubted in private, unsupported by evidence, and manifestly incorrect, can become compulsory in a society, shape its policy, and arouse furious support. Radical egalitarianism is such a creed -- the notion that people, both individually and in groups, are born equal and, preferably, identical. It would then follow that all differences arise from nurture.
    What if they don't?

    As a matter of daily experience we observe that some individuals are bigger, smarter, better athletes, superior artists, better singers. It isn't all nurture: Raise me as Michael Jordan was raised, and I would still be short and slow. We also observe that some groups consistently excel others. We pretend otherwise because the penalties for not pretending are severe. Most of us know we are pretending.

    There is at the University of Ontario a scholar named J. Philippe Rushton, much in disrepute among the clergy of nurturism. He is a sociobiologist, a member of an outcast class holding that much of behavior is biologically shaped. His book, Race, Evolution, and Behavior, is intensely reviled among the keepers of proper thought.* It purports to describe and explain differences in intelligence and behavior among races. This we must never, ever do.

    I don't give it blanket endorsement, but its central thrust is sufficiently in accord with daily experience as to be worth pondering. In outline:

    The IQ of East Asians (Koreans, Chinese, Japanese) is about 106, of Eurowhites 100, "blacks" in America 85, blacks in Africa 70. He does not in the book deal with Jews, but Ashkenazi Jews average 115. The East Asians have a particular advantage in mathematics.

    Why?

    The moment one recites the statistics, frantic counterarguments arise. Race doesn't exist or, contradictorily, isn't important. Intelligence doesn't exist, can't be defined, or can't be measured. Tests are biased. In short, anything that gives an undesired answer undergoes summary rejection.

    Now, readers may reach such conclusions as they think best. But allow me two questions and an assertion. The first question: Do you not know some people who are unquestionably smarter than some others? The second question: Given that races demonstrably differ in appearance, size, bodily proportions, biochemistry, brain size, and a thousand other things, is there any obvious reason why they should not vary in intelligence? In behavior?

    The assertion: The people who devise tests of intelligence, as anyone may discover by reading, are neither fools, nor bigots, nor unaware of the problems of testing. Dismiss them only after much reading and careful thought.

    The thesis of the sociobiologists is as follows: Men evolved about 200,000 years ago in Africa. Some migrated to Europe about 100,000 years ago and, then being in genetic isolation from Africa, evolved into the Caucasian race. Roughly 40,000 years ago some of the Caucasians migrated to Asia and, in genetic isolation, evolved into East Asians.

    Life in northern Europe, runs the argument, was far more difficult than it had been in Africa because of, if nothing else, harsh winters. Survival required not just the intelligence to keep warm but also cooperation, forethought, planning, and cohesion. The people who would become East Asians, living in still more difficult conditions, needed more of these qualities. Those who survived had them.

    This may be true. It may not. In evolutionary circles, plausibility trades as evidence. Yet it fits.

    Says Rushton, on the basis of many years of research, there exists a clear gradient in many things from yellow to white to black. Asians have somewhat larger brains than whites who have substantially larger brains than blacks. Measured aggressiveness follows the same pattern of a small gap between yellow and white and a larger gap between white and black. The pattern applies for other characteristics: East Asians are lowest in testosterone levels, latest in entering puberty, lowest in size of genitals, degree of criminality, sex drive, rates of fertility, rates of divorce and promiscuity. Blacks are at the other extreme, with whites falling between.

    Rushton is no fool. He knows that some of these things are influenced by variables other than the innate. He knows the pitfalls in cross-cultural measurement. Yet, he asserts, the pattern remains. In the United States, for example, crime is very low among East Asians, academic performance very high, divorce rare, families small.

    In short, his thesis is that while environment obviously matters in determining outcomes, our capacities and behavior are very much influenced by genetics. The idea is not new, merely forbidden. Rushton et al however make a careful evidentiary case that is not easily ignored, unless you have determined in advance to ignore it.

    Nurturists disagree with the sociobiologists. Behavior that seems racial, they argue, is in fact determined by culture. The question is tricky. Culture may itself be to a considerable extent the expression of biology. If East Asians are by nature less aggressive than whites, perhaps because of lower levels of testosterone, one would expect the lack of aggressiveness to be embodied in the culture. That is, naturally quiet people will raise their children to be quiet and be inclined to value courtesy. The nurturist can then say, "Aha! Just as I thought. Socially ingrained." Maybe. Maybe not.

    A shift in the intellectual climate seems to be in the offing. Increasingly we see a clash between the compulsory view that we are all identical at birth, which would happily allow the eradication of various inequalities and of crime; and the quietly held but growing recognition that if we are inherently different, as seems to be the case, we will unavoidably have different results.

    The question cannot easily be studied. The nurturists are politically in the saddle, and so research into racial differences is verboten. One may ask, of course: Why do the correct fear investigation, unless they know, or suspect, that they are wrong? It is assuredly true that, in the past, theories of racial superiority have often emanated from virulent nationalists who have sought to place their own stock at the top of the heap. The inevitable comparison is with Hitler, a dark squatty little thing convinced of the superiority of blonde Aryan supermen.

    In Rushton's case we are dealing with something else. A white Canadian who believes in yellow supremacy is hardly aggrandizing himself. I am myself a purebred Euro-mongrel without known trace of Asian or Jewish ancestry. I'd like to regard Scots/English/Huguenot cocktails as the pinnacle of civilization, and those in cowboy hats as the better of the best. I don't see the evidence. Rushton's gradient accords with my observations whether I like it or not. Perhaps we had better get used to Chinese mathematicians.
    ...people like to cry a lot... - Pekka
    ...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority. - Snotty

  • #2
    Re: Race differences

    Originally posted by Caligastia
    Here is an interesting article I found. I wonder if its possible to discuss it with descending into hysteria?
    Why am I not surprised?

    Blah

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Re: Race differences

      Originally posted by BeBro


      Why am I not surprised?

      Thanks for your valuable input...
      ...people like to cry a lot... - Pekka
      ...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority. - Snotty

      Comment


      • #4
        Come on, I was bumping your thread
        Blah

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by BeBro
          Come on, I was bumping your thread
          ...people like to cry a lot... - Pekka
          ...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority. - Snotty

          Comment


          • #6
            I don't think it's racist to study/discuss/speculate about innate differences among racial groups as long as you keep firmly in mind that group differences say nothing about individuals, and in fact are generally small compared to the differences among individuals of the same group.

            One possibility that I didn't see mentioned in the article is that over time, differences in culture can create differences in inborn traits, due to evolutionary pressure. Let's say you have a culture that respects learning above all else. In that culture, those who are more intelligent and/or inclined to learn will have an advantage in the competition for mates, and therefore have more children. Over time, this will increase the average intelligence of the group. The same applies to characteristics such as size and strength, if that's what the culture values most. Likewise aggression or non-aggression.

            I'm getting into the realm of conjecture here, but it seems to me that intelligence is more valuable (relative to physical attributes) in a civilized society than a non-civilized one. ("Civilized" here means that the society practices agriculture and/or other organized productive activities, and that it is governed at a higher level than tribes or clans.) The advent of civilization increases the evolutionary pressure in favor of intelligence vs. physical attributes.

            Now consider the groups (races) discussed in the article. China and other parts of East Asia have been civilized quite a bit longer than Europe, while most of Africa was still in the hunter/gatherer/tribal stage just two centuries ago.

            Like I said, this is mostly conjecture, but it makes sense to me.
            "THE" plus "IRS" makes "THEIRS". Coincidence? I think not.

            Comment


            • #7
              Great post Rex! I agree.
              ...people like to cry a lot... - Pekka
              ...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority. - Snotty

              Comment


              • #8
                One possibility that I didn't see mentioned in the article is that over time, differences in culture can create differences in inborn traits, due to evolutionary pressure. Let's say you have a culture that respects learning above all else. In that culture, those who are more intelligent and/or inclined to learn will have an advantage in the competition for mates, and therefore have more children. Over time, this will increase the average intelligence of the group. The same applies to characteristics such as size and strength, if that's what the culture values most. Likewise aggression or non-aggression.
                In most civilized societies, learning belonged the realm of the elite. And in many, the elite bred principally for politics.

                If this phenomenon exists, I'd wager that it isn't significant.

                I'm getting into the realm of conjecture here, but it seems to me that intelligence is more valuable (relative to physical attributes) in a civilized society than a non-civilized one. ("Civilized" here means that the society practices agriculture and/or other organized productive activities, and that it is governed at a higher level than tribes or clans.) The advent of civilization increases the evolutionary pressure in favor of intelligence vs. physical attributes.
                Quite the contrary, actually. In most civilized societies, social, political, and economic barriers prevented the intelligent from dominating the society (and getting laid a lot), whereas in hunter-gatherer societies no such barriers existed.

                The IQ of East Asians (Koreans, Chinese, Japanese) is about 106, of Eurowhites 100, "blacks" in America 85, blacks in Africa 70. He does not in the book deal with Jews, but Ashkenazi Jews average 115. The East Asians have a particular advantage in mathematics.
                Have you ever thought that perhaps some groups are richer than others? That some groups are guided by different cultures? Nevermind, I don't want to strain your superior brain.

                I'd also like to see the methodology in deriving these statistics. How big a sample did he use? Where did he get his samples? And so forth.

                The thesis of the sociobiologists is as follows: Men evolved about 200,000 years ago in Africa. Some migrated to Europe about 100,000 years ago and, then being in genetic isolation from Africa, evolved into the Caucasian race. Roughly 40,000 years ago some of the Caucasians migrated to Asia and, in genetic isolation, evolved into East Asians.

                Genetic isolation?

                I'll remind you that the Sahara didn't exist 40,000 years ago.

                Magical trips from one end of the continent to another without any interbreeding?

                Bullcrap. Total bullcrap. I'd like to see the evidence and credentials of these "sociobiologists."

                If East Asians and Jews are so much smarter than everyone else, why haven't they displaced the untermenschen like the African homo sapiens sapiens did to his European and Asian contemporaries?

                Life in northern Europe, runs the argument, was far more difficult than it had been in Africa because of, if nothing else, harsh winters. Survival required not just the intelligence to keep warm but also cooperation, forethought, planning, and cohesion. The people who would become East Asians, living in still more difficult conditions, needed more of these qualities. Those who survived had them.
                I don't suppose that this guy has any evidence for this claim.

                Why were the homo sapiens sapiens whose origin is in Africa superior to the homo sapiens neandertalensis and the homo erectus (from Europe and Asia, respectively)?

                Why aren't the Inuit ruling the world?

                I'd like to see Cali live in a tropical rainforest, so he can tell us how "easy" it is.

                The moment one recites the statistics, frantic counterarguments arise. Race doesn't exist
                Yep, the genetic differences between so-called "races" are totally insignificant.
                "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                -Bokonon

                Comment


                • #9
                  1) Humans began evolving 2 million years ago in Africa. There never was such a thing as a pure racial group either.

                  2) There were a few civilizations that did not rely on agriculture -- one example being the complex city-based people of Amerindians in the Northwest coast on the Pacific.

                  3) You cannot ignore the high poverty rate within Chinese ghettos and Chinatowns. It is too often overlooked, and so people often fail to see the poverty of Asian-Americans.

                  4) There are differences between races that are based on sociological and environmental factors -- not based on the race itself. One group of blacks that lives in one area of the world will be socio-economically and intellectually different than another group of blacks in another part of the world simply because of sociological and environmental factors.
                  A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Caligastia, are you a member of the NYPD?

                    At least now I know why you don't like rap music.

                    But seriously, does the author explain somewhere how "agressiveness" and "sex drive" statistics were determined? And in terms of criminality, does this work account for the vast majority of drug users who are "white", but are never arrested or prosecuted. I refer you to some recent research - www.hrw.org/reports/2000/usa . Please review section VII.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Last edited by Carver; April 8, 2002, 21:11.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        As the author said, its difficult to prove anything either way, but many in society automatically dismiss any study of race and intelligence if the results dont favor what they already believe.
                        ...people like to cry a lot... - Pekka
                        ...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority. - Snotty

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Surely it's unrealistic to expect for the only result of 50,000+years of (largley) seperate evolution, to be different skin colour?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Caligastia, did you read my post??
                            A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by MrFun
                              Caligastia, did you read my post??
                              Will respond soon, dont have time right now...
                              ...people like to cry a lot... - Pekka
                              ...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority. - Snotty

                              Comment

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