Chrisitianities great crimes

[Giancarlo]

The world in my opinion would be better without Christianity. My country (Spain) has a horrible record such as the Inquistion, and that is why the government is secular now. The world overall would better without Christianity. I don't even like talking about the inquistion because it was the lowest point in my country's history, it was disgraceful.

[Solly]

Originally posted by Giancarlo
The world in my opinion would be better without Christianity. My country (Spain) has a horrible record such as the Inquistion, and that is why the government is secular now. The world overall would better without Christianity. I don't even like talking about the inquistion because it was the lowest point in my country's history, it was disgraceful.

I thought the lowest point was Euro 2000

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Boddington's


I thought the lowest point was Euro 2000

Don't get me started with that. The peseta always will have more cultural value than that crappy money.

[Solly]

Originally posted by Giancarlo


Don't get me started with that. The peseta always will have more cultural value than that crappy money.

How many peseta to the Euro..?

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

It's a football reference....

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Boddington's


How many peseta to the Euro..?

I am unsure... haven't check.

[Felch]

Originally posted by Giancarlo
The world in my opinion would be better without Christianity. My country (Spain) has a horrible record such as the Inquistion, and that is why the government is secular now. The world overall would better without Christianity. I don't even like talking about the inquistion because it was the lowest point in my country's history, it was disgraceful.

People seem to love bashing the Inquisition, and while I will admit it doesn't conform to the Christian ideal, it certainly wasn't out of the ordinary for its time. Virtually everybody was using torture, and to a certain degree the Inquisition was almost generous. For example, the use of torture was never widespread, it could be avoided by simply admitting to whatever sins were being investigated, safeguards were in place to prevent fraudulent testimony, and in the Roman Inquisitions the defendents were given free legal advice if they couldn't afford it on their own.

Granted it was bad, but a lot of the evils associated with it come from the Anglo-centric history that most of us are familiar with. The English used many of the same demonizing tactics on the Spanish that the Arabs are using today on Israel; they take a kernel of actual criminal activity and then embellish it with wild extravagances. The reality wasn't good, but it certainly wasn't the darkest black mark on Christianity's history. The Crusades would be more reasonable for that.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Adalbertus

This is a heritage of Judaism. The new point of Christianity is the (often forgotten) love for the enemies. Where Christianity has failed more often than complied to. But still it is to my knowledge the only religion who has put forward this great idea, and thus still is way ahead of everything else.

Which of the founders of the Red Cross was Jewish? Are you talking about temple charities? Since the boundaries between church and state were pretty hazy in ancient Israel and Judea I'm not sure that would count as "non-governmental.

[Tom201]

dp

[Tom201]

Originally posted by Caligastia
Despite all the terrible things that have been done in the name of christianity, the world is a better place thanks to the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Really?
In the 19th century a much larger percentage of ppl. believed in god. I dont see why that time was any better than now today(speaking here of europe/usa).

Originally posted by Adalbertus
Starting Christianity: A great thing. Many concepts of the Western culture depend on the christianity - including freedom, equality, solidarity

Freedom is imo not a christian value.
-> censorship laws on sex and violence entertainment, which are based on the chritian churches influence.
Or ask some gay ppl. if they think churches are a place of freedom and tolerance

Equality is at least in the catholic church not the case (pope, etc.).


The world would be a better place if no religions existed.

[Dr Strangelove]

Look at it this way, without Christianity the predominant religion of the west would have been either Roman emporer worship or German Wotanism. Islam would not have existed since Mohammed appears to have been inspired by itinerate Christians.

How would you like to be forced to worship George W. Bush?

[Shi Huangdi]

"Also, more to the point, Anti-Semitism isn't part of church doctrine. Therefore this is something that is entirely up to individuals who actually did bad things."

Correct. In fact, The Medieval Church took actions to protect Jews. Several Cardinals hid jews, and a Medieval pope banned forced conversion.

"Other other religions? Not doctrinal, blame it on individuals. Or the middle-Catholic Church mostly, but probably not the modern one either. But look at early American colonial writing, and you'll see a lot of the first seeds for tolerance, even among the Puritans whom you wouldn't think of at first."

Often times the worst were Christians not tolerating each other, such as with Cromwell in Ireland. But the Medieval Church never really presided over non-Christian lands/

"Pope Urban II. And a lot of annoying nobles. Be a good communist, che, and don't blame the poor serfs who got to support the war and were "good" Christians and didn't have much of a choice."

This is perhaps the most misunderstood war in history. First, the Church had recieved reports from the midddle east. Next, the holy war was actually started by the Moslems who were jihading against the Byzantines- the Byzantine Empire appealed to the west for help to defend them against the Moslems. All of the land that the Christians set out to conquer were lands the Moslems had already captured in Jihad. The Church in fact gave orders to leave the existing Eastern Churches in place, instead it's adherents were massacred in Jerusalem. The plan was also to convert the Arabs, not to massacre them. Sadly, the nobles did not go about conquering these lands in a Christian faction and acted the teachings and orders of the Church in Rome. The Conduct of the Crusades was abonimable, but the original plan was hardly a crime.


"The Inquisition in Spain was much more a political tool than a religious one"

The same for the French. King Louis XIV was perhaps the most pomopous, most egotistical ******* of all time. He had to have his away, and because of his personality he could not maintain Henry IV's Edict of Nantes. His supression was part of his program of absolutism, in trying to ensure absolute obedience to him in all ways.



"The destruction of the Mayan Codices"

Spanish Imperial policy.



"The Thirty Years War"

This was based on a Habsburg play for dominance.



"Allow me to make a conjecture. First of all, as you know, many of the abolitionist movement were fanatical Christians as well. Many of them also happened to be well-off. I say they did it for moral reasons. The Christians who supported slavery, dare I say it, did so more for economic reasons, and then later came up with a vaugely moral one by supporting it from a really shaky interpretation of the Old Testament."

Correct, also mention how the Catholic Church banned this early on and the role of Bartolomew de La Casas in improving the treateatment of the natives.

[Sarxis]

I hate sh*t like this.

"What is the greatest crime of the Christians."

Could you possibly GENERALIZE any more than that?

Let's go the next step up- what's the worst thing the Humans have ever done?



[Hmm... I actually know the answer to that.]

[Logical Realist]

Notice how all the nay sayers on this poll are always making unfounded accusations that are nothing more than rationalizations.

"It wasn't real Christians that did it, it was renagades, or the church",

or "people"

or

"politics"

In fact the only things they seem to agree on is that it wasn't "True Christians" aka using the no true scotsman fallacy.

What they fail to realize is that while all these motives are possible, they can easily be made up. In light of that, it is best to accept the event and motives for it at face value. Unless compelling evidece says otherwise. For every possible alternative motive, it could just be religious ferver. The only reason they seem to reject that explanation is that they evaluate the whole thing on the a priori bias that "religion cannot possibly be it" using that premise, they will grasp for any other possible explanation for what motivated these people. And of course they will find one. As such explanations are easy to invent and human nature is multifaceted. (religion is rarely the sole culprit).



The alternative argument popular here is the one of two wrongs making a right. "If my belief system causes people to do bad things then so does yours, so its best if we say neither can".

Such an argument, even taken at face value is very poor. Condemnation of both sides does not exempt either side. An objective observer would just have to say both were bad.

I think that thus, both Marxism and Christianity are responsible for some major crimes.

Atheism howver is not. Because depite how many people want to believe it is, atheism is only a negative position. Christianity and Marxism are positive doctrines that prescribe a code of behavior and can motivate. Atheism cannot do this because atheism prescribes nothing, it merely denotes the absence of belief in God.

[MrFun]

The teachings of Jesus Christ, in my opinion, ranks as one of the most important, and one of the greatest positive things that began in the history of humankind.

Ufortunately, humans over the centuries have skewed and twisted Christ's teachings and values around for their own selfish purposes, so no one probably knows what he truly taught.

Jesus Christ never wrote anything down.

I respect people who are faithful in any religion, but many of them also do not realize the hypocrisy and contradictions in their own religion. But I can never hate a religious, faithful individual.

What I am appalled with, are the institutional abuses and misuses of any religion.