Chrisitianities great crimes

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Guynemer
More than a little disappointed in Che right now...

Fine, be disappointed.

I was just curious what people thought was the worst thing that Chrisitianity had done. Over two thousand years, it can't have been all hymns and incense. No one gets upset about evil pope threads. And if you wanted me to be more specific, I would have had to target specific branches of Christianity, which would have really been religious bashing.

All of the crimes listed above (with the exceptions of televangalism, which was just a silly option, and starting the religion, which was for the Christianity haters), were crimes against humanity committed in the name of Christianity.

[DinoDoc]

Che, if you don't mind, I'd like your opinion in this thread.

[Guynemer]

Committed in the name of Christianity? Okay.

But that is not the same thing as saying "Christianity's great crimes". That implies something very, very different.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Logical Realist


You think ideas like that of eternal hellfire for all non-believers, abandoning family for religion, the promotion of blind faith and the prmotion of doomsday cults was one of the most important and positive things that ever began?

You have exaggerated some of what we THINK are Christ's teachings, and you have distorted them as well.

Many Christians today have come to respect other religions, believe it or not. The only image you have of Christians, though, is that of the extreme fundamentalists, who do not even represent the mainstream faithful Christians.

Jesus more than likely taught unconditional acceptance of others, and that people should forgive the shortcomings of other people.

He was an advocate for the impoverished, the downtrodden, and the persecuted. He was a revolutionary figure who became a martyr.

Why do you take the extreme end of Christianity, and apply it to the mainstream Christianity??

[Natan]

Well, I'd have to say that the worst of the lot were suppression of other religions/anti-Semitism, the two being related phenomena.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Adalbertus
Why isn't this a multiple-choice poll?

Cuz I wanted people to have to think about it, and make a choice as to what was the single worst.

Starting Christianity: A great thing. Many concepts of the Western culture depend on the christianity - including freedom, equality, solidarity (AFAIK, Christians were the first who had the concept of all humans being equal in something else than death - which is in the love of God)

This was just a choice for those whom I knew would choose it.

I see you missed anti-Semitism. For those who would like to bring up the point about the Church protecting Jews later on, that's fine. However, Christianity started this abominable practice and belief very early. It wasn't even 100 years old before the Christians began demonizing the Jews, and it's carried this infection with it ever since. "Let his blood be on us and our decendents," was part of that attempt to castigate Judaism. And while some popes may have tried to ban forced conversions, it should be remebered that the Inquisition forced 1/3rd of Spain's Jews to convert, and that in the last century, a Pope stole a Jewish child that had been baptized in secret (they are trying to make him a saint, now )

The early supression of heresy and the destruction of the Gnositic Gospels:
Inner-religious dispute.

Most of the early Gospels of the life of Jesus Christ, and possible even the "Q" text were lost as a result of the suppression of the early heretics. How might Christianity have treated women differently if The Gospel of Mary Magdelene had survived? Early on, Christianity showed its displeasure with difference of opinion.

The destruction of the Library of Alexandria: Bad thing anyway. According to what I've heard (certainly not the summit of all wisdom) is that the Muslim mob finished the work - but mob is mob. FYI - At this time, Christianity wasn't so much divided into separate groups as it is now.

Nope, it was burned down after the last head of the Library was murdered by a Christian mob in 415 (two hundred years before Islam). They pulled her from a chariot and tore the flesh from her bones with abolone shellls, all cuz of ArchBishop Cyril.

The suppression of other religions: In some way or the other, this is the way to survive.

Christianity could have survived without outlawing all other religions. It's surviving now, isn't it?

The Crusades: Definitely a crime - from the inner-Christian logic: Jesus gave very clear instructions on how mission is to be performed. If people don't want to be converted,

It was a religious war, and while there were definate matieral causes for the war, it doesn't stop the fact that war was carried out in Christianity's name. They litterally made the streets of Jerusalem run red with blood. They were absolute brutes to the people they conquered.

The Inquisition: Definitely a crime:

Agreed.

The supression of science: There was one pope who suppressed the teaching of Galilei. Unfortunately, most popes have the tendency to follow unquestioning their predecessors. On the other hand, I think that Christianity made science possible in the sense that it liberated man from the fear of "asking too much".

That's crap. Science in Europe didn't take off until it was liberated from the shackles of the Catholic Church. Science existed prior to Christianity, and it left Europe for a thousand years because of it.

The destruction of the Mayan Codices: See Great Library

Catholic Inquisitors burned almost the entire written body of the Mayan works as pagan. A few survived, but what we might have known about Meso-America that was lost?

The witch trials: See Inquisition. And they are also a sign of a weak faith.

Thousands of women and men, tortured and murdered in the name of God.

The Thirty Years War: Had mainly political origins.

Irrelevent. It was done in the name of Chrisitianity. Tens of millions of people died in the name of Christ.

Supporting slavery:

Look, the point that it was fervent Christians who helped to abolish slavery is irrelevent. This isn't a poll of Christianity's greatest accomplishments, though that might make a good poll. Christians used the teachings of the Bible to justify their enslavement of fellow humans. It was a crime committed in the name of Christianity.

Hetero-sexism:

The deformed status of men and women in Christianity is a great crime. Not allowing humans to express the full variations inherent in being human denies us the ability to be fully human. This crime is ongoing.

Televangelism: The banana option is way more serious.

That was just silliness.

[SnowFire]

All of the crimes listed above (with the exceptions of televangalism, which was just a silly option, and starting the religion, which was for the Christianity haters), were crimes against humanity committed in the name of Christianity.

HUGEEEEEEEE difference, as said before. In that case, I'd go for the Inquisition.

But this is probably worth an edit. I have absolutely no problem with worst pope threads or worst crime committed in Christianity's name type things. But look at the title of the thread, now.

Logical Realist, stop being silly.

[Shi Huangdi]

"However, Christianity started this abominable practice and belief very early"

How about the Egyptians?


"and that in the last century, a Pope stole a Jewish child that had been baptized in secret"

First, I doubt you'd be able to prove that. Nextly, the pope could have confessed his sin if he did that.

" it should be remebered that the Inquisition forced 1/3rd of Spain's Jews to convert,"

Again, political motives. Ferdinand and Isabel by this point had already gained large amounts of control over the Catholic Church in Spain. They were uniting Castile and Aragon, two countries historically didn't like each other, so they chose this immoral method to try to unify Spain under the banner of Christianity.

"Nope, it was burned down after the last head of the Library was murdered by a Christian mob in 415"

No, it was the Moslems who did this.

"Catholic Inquisitors burned almost the entire written body of the Mayan works as pagan."

Part of Spanish imperial policy, designed to subjugate the native people and destroy their culture.

"It was done in the name of Chrisitianity."

A whole lot of stuff was done in the name of Communism, too.

"This crime is ongoing."

Most mainstream churches DO NOT teach that discrimination or hatred is anyway acceptable. Some merely teach that homosexual sex is a sin.

[OzzyKP]

What a hateful thread. I don't understand people who hate Christianity at all. How can anyone have such seething hatred for a religion whose core beliefs are peace and love? What is so terrible about peace and love?

Do you all start threads about the crimes against humanity the hippies wrought? No, of course not. Bill Clinton may be considered a hippie in the 60s, does all his wreckless bombing during his 2 terms count as crimes against humanity by hippies? No.

Christianity doctrinly is the most peaceful, loving, tolerant religion to have ever existed.

Those who pull out Bible passages to support some hateful, violent action of theirs is always, always, always pulling from the Old Testiment. The Jewish Torah. If you wanted to look at it that way you should blame Jews for hetro-sexism, or any other things people have done.

As has been noted earlier, the crimes that occured in the past have been political crimes, not religious crimes.

If you wanted to do a tally of the last 2000 years, or perhaps for all of history, the number of abuses and the amount of violence and oppression undertaken by government and by religion there would be no comparision. Governments BY FAR have killed more innocent human beings than religions ever have, why are there lots of athiests denouncing harmful religion and not anarchists denouncing the very existance of governments?

This is just anti-Christian hatemongering.

[Dr Strangelove]

The "deformed status" of women was more inherited from the germanic barbarians who overran Europe than from the Gospels or the writings of Paul. There were a large number of female bishops early in church history, The practice seems to have died out in the 6th century, right about the time that the invaders took over.

[MrFun]

After the fall of the Roman Empire, the Catholic monasteries took up the task in preserving the knowledge from the Classical ancient world.

With no other institutions in existence with the collaspe of the Roman Empire, the Catholic monasteries preserved the intellectual heritage from the Classical ancient world.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by OzzyKP
How can anyone have such seething hatred for a religion whose core beliefs are peace and love? What is so terrible about peace and love?

Oh, nothing. It's just that what's preached wasn't practiced often.

Even Jesus went after moneychangers in a temple. Nice, lovely, person. What about him cursing a fig tree just because he couldn't find any fruit since it was out of season?

[MrFun]

Apparently, some people, like Urban Ranger have not read my posts on Jesus Christ on this thread.

[Sava]

I think the greatest crime is fooling its believers for thousands of years into believing something that isn't true.

Everything else is just a side effect.

One thing that seperates Christianity from say, Communism, or Islam, is that Chrisitianity can have positive interpretations.

Overall though, Christianity has the highest death count of any ideology/religion.

Well, Western Christianity anyways. The Orthodox church didn't take part in crusades or inquisitions. In fact, the amount of intolerance in the Roman Catholic church was part of the reason the Eastern Orthodox church split.

When you say Christianity, you should really specify Roman Catholicism. That's really the bad one.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Sava
When you say Christianity, you should really specify Roman Catholicism. That's really the bad one.

Roman Catholicism is not a bad religion in of itself. In fact, there is no religion that is bad in of itself.

It depends on the people --- the ones who are within the institutional positions of a religion, that try to either misuse the religion for their own selfish interests, or those who try to advocate humanistic and good use of their religion.

There are good Roman Catholics, and there are bad Roman Catholics.

You see, it's often more complicated than your stereotypical over-generalizations.