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The serious CPA thread (no spamming please)

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  • #16
    the portion of your proposal that I agree with (which is a decent portion) are not that important regards to the central issue of communism

    other things seem like they are either wrong, or chopping off the leg when it could be repaired and serve society well

    also some statements are way to strong and would be worse than the current problem

    Jon Miller
    Jon Miller-
    I AM.CANADIAN
    GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

    Comment


    • #17
      Would you be interested in doing a line by line commentary?
      I love being beaten by women - Lorizael

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Kamrat X
        Would you be interested in doing a line by line commentary?
        the issues are basically not important enough to be addressed at this time

        but sure...

        Jon Miller
        Jon Miller-
        I AM.CANADIAN
        GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

        Comment


        • #19
          Proposal II

          Aspects on the struggle:

          "The emancipation of the workers will be the work of the workers themselves"

          - ok I agree

          "Socialism will be international or it will not exist."

          - I disagree, this will only make things harder

          On lesbian gay liberation:

          - not important enough to make an issue when compared to communism (this is one of the issues which I think is different from communism and is so adressed best after communism)

          (1) The oppression faced by lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgendered (LGBT) people is a reality in all countries of the world. The association of HIV with homosexuality has led to global stigmatization of sex between men and of sexual acts outside the monogamous heterosexual family. Sexuality in general is a political issue.

          - not really sure what you are saying here, you are saying a lot (I might agree with some or all of it)

          (2) The link between the oppression of LGBT people and women's oppression is key to our understanding and the struggles for liberation are consequently closely linked.

          - disagree on the link

          (3) We defend the necessity of autonomous movements of LGBT people, understanding that oppression cannot be overcome without self-organization.

          - why does anything need to be said here?

          (4) We fight for an understanding of the link between the lesbian/gay struggle and the workers' movement, while avoiding subordinating the lesbian/gay struggle to some other movement.

          - disagree that there is a link

          (5) We fight for an internationalist approach to this question. LGBT people are oppressed everywhere, albeit in different ways. The movement needs to organize internationally and in solidarity with the most oppressed.

          - disagree on international approach

          ---------------
          bascially why does a communist party worry about this, it has nothing to do with communism (or very little, which can be summed up as you stated elsewhere)

          basically this is a different fight and is less important (and easier to solve once communism comes into being)

          ------------------------
          On ecology:

          -----------------
          see above statements on how it is not as important and is not part of communism
          ------------
          We demand:

          A radical break with the exploitative system of agricultural export production in the dependent countries which produces famine and poverty.

          - disagree with the assumption (it is a lack of structure which causes the problems (ie could be fixed by a working communistic system))

          An immediate ban on the entire nuclear power cycle.

          - shows you do not understand, nuclear power is currently the only promising power alternative to oil (and is safe and clean to boot)

          - in otherwords I disagree strongly

          An immediate ban on the production and use of toxic and dangerous substances such as chlorinated fluorocarbons and asbestos.

          - not our issue (see above), ban is a little harsh and serves communism and us little (personally I would be in favor of limitations, but a communist regime would do this so..)

          No economic exploitation of the Antarctic.

          - why not?, and how is this in anyway related to communism

          No to the destruction of the tropical rain forests and to the fatal pollution of the forests in the industrialized countries.

          - how is this related (it might matter a bit if the nation we start is tropical but otherwise says nothing)?

          Stop all agricultural practices which destroy the soil in the industrialized countries.

          - how is this related, it is not important

          Stop dumping waste into the seas, rivers and lakes.

          - how is this related, would be taken care of by a communist nation (a true communist nation)

          Prevent dangerous and in the "Third World", with the slaughter of the Amazon Indians, even genocidal nuclear power projects such as Kararao (Brazil) and Sardars Sarovar (India).

          - why?

          Ban all toxic waste transports and on the transfer of hazardous production processes to the dependent countries.

          - why??

          We support:

          A system of agriculture in dependent countries that is primarily oriented to securing the basic necessities of the population.

          - why??

          Production of goods for civilian instead of military use.

          - why??

          Useful and planned use of energy instead of over-exploitation of nonrenewable energy sources: development of alternative energy sources such as solar and wind energy, energy from biological sources, etc.

          - why (this is what nuclear power is doing by the way)

          Ecological farming.

          Development of public instead of private, individual transport systems, especially local transport and railway.

          - OK, this is related to communism and I am pro

          Filters and sewage works, etc., are insufficient. What is required is a fundamental industrial conversion which forbids environmental pollution right from the start.

          - why?

          A policy of recycling and radical avoidance of waste.

          - why??

          -----------------

          I basically see nothing wrong with being involved in multiple parties and if you feel that strongly on these three subjects (Well you haven't really mentioned communism but I will assume you feel strongly there) then join three parties

          IE join a green party, a gay/lesbian/bi party, and a communist party

          by including that as our main point, you are subverting the energies of this party away from communism and into other things (which might have merit)

          Women's liberation is not our issue
          Men's liberation is not are issue
          The earth is not our issue
          Children's Liberation is not our issue
          Gay liberatin is not our issue
          Lesbian liberation is not our issue
          Bi liberation is not our issue
          Slavery is not our issue
          Race is not our issue
          Religion is not our issue

          Communism is our issue

          Jon Miller
          Jon Miller-
          I AM.CANADIAN
          GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

          Comment


          • #20
            We have formulated a letter demanding the withdrawal of all genetically engineered (GE) foods from the market unless they have undergone rigorous safety assessment.


            and if have undergone rigorous safety assessment?




            Generally speaking , my goal here is not a happy planet, but a happy humankind. If we want to have a happy humankind , we need clean atmosphere ,and unpolluted water. I care for rare and endangered species. Why? I would like future generations of HUMANS to enjoy them existing. And If a certain habitat is lost to a dam? Tough cookies.

            oh, and all this of course has absolutely nothing to do with how our human society will look in the future.
            urgh.NSFW

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Dalgetti




              and if have undergone rigorous safety assessment?




              Generally speaking , my goal here is not a happy planet, but a happy humankind. If we want to have a happy humankind , we need clean atmosphere ,and unpolluted water. I care for rare and endangered species. Why? I would like future generations of HUMANS to enjoy them existing. And If a certain habitat is lost to a dam? Tough cookies.

              oh, and all this of course has absolutely nothing to do with how our human society will look in the future.
              in general I agree

              Jon Miller
              Jon Miller-
              I AM.CANADIAN
              GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

              Comment


              • #22
                'all men are created equal despite race, creed or sexual preference'

                this is as far as I would go on 'Gay Rights', the groups for things like 'Gay Rights' seem to go so far overboard so as to be rediculous and I include your statements in that

                (I think that giving Gays'\Lesbians' the right to marriage is about as far beyond that original sentence fragment as is sane)

                Jon Miller
                Jon Miller-
                I AM.CANADIAN
                GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Jon Miller: Thanks.
                  urgh.NSFW

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    bumping this thread , as high as possible , so it's well seen to KX.
                    urgh.NSFW

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I didn't even know what CPA stands for before I opened this. bad thread title

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        where is Kamrat??

                        Jon Miller
                        Jon Miller-
                        I AM.CANADIAN
                        GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          1. CPA???

                          2. Why not kill yourself, lessen the load on the environment.

                          3. Better yet invent a bioplague to wipe out huge numbers of humans. save the whales...

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Ecthelion, CPA stands for certified public accountant.

                            =============

                            I some aspects, I agree with Comrade Miller, in that we need to keep focused on the main goal of communism. However, I disagree with the comrade on what that goal is. The goal of communism is not public ownership of companies, etc., but freedom. Specifically, freedom from necessity.

                            By freedom from necessity I mean the conditions of current human existence that require the vast majority of humanity to waste their existences slaving away to secure the material conditions necessary for existence. Most people spend their entire waking life either working to obtain the food, clothing, housing, etc. they need or are recovering from work and replenishing themselves for the next day's work. Despite the fact that we live comparatively better than our ancestors, it is but a gilded cage. Our ancestors standard of living may have been poor than ours, but they had substantially more free time in which to relate with other human beings, to produce art (folk art is still art), etc.

                            Revolution, economic democracy, public ownership of the means of production are not ends in themselves, but means to an end. By abolishing profit, by abolishing unecessary labor, by allowing people to have control over their workplaces, we anticipate that the overall amount of work necessary to produce the necessities of life will be diminished. This will increase the amount of time available for us to concentrate on those things that make us most human: socializing, producing art, science, exploring ourselves and the world, or even just more time to sit around and play Civ.

                            Because our movement is a movement based upon freedom, we need to touch upon all things which enslave us. We need to speak out about all opression, because it is our aim to abolish it. We need to address the concerns that people have about those things that diminish their quality of life, because we aim to create a society which enhances our quality of life.

                            Because our movement is a movement which is opposed to the way things are, we need to know why things are the way they are. How did they come to be that way? Why are they still that way? Why have attempts to change it failed? In what ways they have succeeded? Most importantly, how do we get to where we want to be?

                            None of these questions can be answered by one person or even a small core group of highly educated people. The answers can only be discovered by the most rigorous debate and study and practice. Answers that were once true may no longer be true, because conditions have changed. Underlying truths may still be correct, but how do we apply them to the realities we face today?

                            Which brings me around to my original agreement with Jon. What is important is not so much a laundry list of agreements and demands upon reality. What is important is a method for understanding what tasks lie before us and what concrete activity is required of us.

                            Although I do believe that most of what Marx, Engels, etc. have written is as true today as it was in the days it was written, the most important weapon our former comrades left is their method. It runs like a golden thread through their writings. Understanding this method makes our task easier (though still herculean).

                            What is this thread? It is historical matieralism. It is my position that an understanding of historical materialism necessary for anyone who hopes to change the world.
                            Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by GP
                              1. CPA???
                              Communist Party of Apolyton

                              2. Why not kill yourself, lessen the load on the environment.


                              I do not find non-existence is not an acceptable solution to the problems that humans create for their environment.

                              3. Better yet invent a bioplague to wipe out huge numbers of humans. save the whales...
                              Communists are homo-centric. If it's us or the whales, commies chose the humans to save. Environmentalism, for us, is not an absolute good (although many of may feel it is personally), but rather the place where humans exist. Protecting the environment is a necessary precondition of protecting humanity. Aside from issues of livablity, it is also a source of enjoyment and play for humans, both of which are necessary for psychological health.
                              Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Bah! Materialism rules .

                                I'd rather have a computer industry so I can talk to people all over the world rather than not even developing the technology (because there is no profit).
                                I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.
                                - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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