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**KrazyHorse** · April 7, 2002, 03:07

Grad studies are entirely different than undergrad, since much of that is funded through other means than tuition

It was an undergrad degree, sweetie. I'm talking about how grad acceptance boards view it.

**Asher** · April 7, 2002, 03:09

Originally posted by techumseh
Nonsense. You do not pay twice the income tax that an American does. Hell, I bet you don't pay income tax at all!

I do too, but I'm getting most of it back within the month.

But my dad seriously pays twice as much here as he did when we lived in California.

More nonsense. The US has twice the per capita cost because it's a profit based system. Hundreds of giant health care corporations, each with thousands of shareholders to be satisfied, does not equal efficency and economy.

Canada's health system is so efficient we have to wait, on aveage, 3-4 times as long as the Americans do for the same treatment. Kudos to efficiency.

Two tier health care? Tier one: "Nurse, we'll have to order more tests. And our patient will need another prescription. No generics, though."

Tier two: "I'm sorry Mr. Johnson, I have bad news. You have what we call "no insurance."

Germany's health care is one of the best in the world, and it's two tier. Open your eyes and see how to properly implement a two tier system, look up how those grazy Germans did it.

**Asher** · April 7, 2002, 03:11

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
It was an undergrad degree, sweetie. I'm talking about how grad acceptance boards view it.

So it was considered to be the "best".

Tuition freezes don't hurt it in the short term, "sweetie". Wait until they lift that freeze. Holy **** I wouldn't want to be a student then.

**techumseh** · April 7, 2002, 03:11

Originally posted by RedFred

Additional revenue for health care is received by various provinces in various ways. BC and Alberta have user pay premiums. When I lived in Ontario they had a health care tax on corporations instead.

I never said there was no cost to health care services, only that there were no premiums paid by individuals.

**KrazyHorse** · April 7, 2002, 03:13

Originally posted by Asher

So it was considered to be the "best".

Tuition freezes don't hurt it in the short term, "sweetie". Wait until they lift that freeze. Holy **** I wouldn't want to be a student then.

What don't you understand about "frozen since 1993"?

**Asher** · April 7, 2002, 03:14

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
What don't you understand about "frozen since 1993"?

What don't you understand about "long term"?

9 years isn't that long. Just wait a bit longer, sweet child.

**techumseh** · April 7, 2002, 03:15

Originally posted by Asher
Canada's health system is so efficient we have to wait, on aveage, 3-4 times as long as the Americans do for the same treatment. Kudos to efficiency.

Once again, IF you have coverage, THEN you can go to the head of the line. It's not brain surgery! (well sometimes it is)

**DinoDoc** · April 7, 2002, 03:16

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
What don't you understand about "frozen since 1993"?

Has the Provincial government increased how much it gives the university or have they discovered a way to shakedown rich alumni to such an extent that would make an American school blush?

**Asher** · April 7, 2002, 03:16

Originally posted by techumseh
Once again, IF you have coverage, THEN you can go to the head of the line. It's not brain surgery! (well sometimes it is)

Yes, but you're acting like the waits don't kill people. They do. People die waiting for things in Canada, it's a sad fact ignored by many.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if those fatality rates were exactly comparible to those in the US who don't get stuff done because they're not covered.

26M Americans aren't covered, and how many people live there? 270M or so? That's pretty good, actually.

**KrazyHorse** · April 7, 2002, 03:18

Originally posted by Asher

What don't you understand about "long term"?

9 years isn't that long. Just wait a bit longer, sweet child.

Then why is it McGill has just started to pull out of a financial crunch it underwent in the early to mid 90s?

We just refurnished all of our buildings and put up 3 new ones. Our physics computer lab has the most machine power/user in north america. We're about to have the first dedicated micromachining shop in Canada...

**notyoueither** · April 7, 2002, 03:18

Originally posted by techumseh

Once again, IF you have coverage, THEN you can go to the head of the line. It's not brain surgery! (well sometimes it is)

But then, they pay twice as much per capita for 4 times the service. Efficient? maybe.

Do you honestly think that our dogmatic thinking on the subject of health care spending is giving us the best of all possible systems?

Dogma and best seldom meet.

**KrazyHorse** · April 7, 2002, 03:19

Originally posted by DinoDoc

Has the Provincial government increased how much it gives the university or have they discovered a way to shakedown rich alumni to such an extent that would make an American school blush?

Shakedown + federal grants due to high quality of research.

**Asher** · April 7, 2002, 03:19

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Then why is it McGill has just started to pull out of a financial crunch it underwent in the early to mid 90s?

Maybe it has to do with the ~4B(is that number right?) or so that the federal government "accidentally" gave you guys during the 1990s during transfer payment errors...

We just refurnished all of our buildings and put up 3 new ones. Our physics computer lab has the most machine power/user in north america. We're about to have the first dedicated micromachining shop in Canada...

Maybe it's because your province gets money from Alberta in equalization payments? Isn't it great to have people throw money in your face?

**Tingkai** · April 7, 2002, 03:21

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Explain to me all this Quebec thing.

Originally posted by notyoueither
Uhhh. Sorry to burst your bubble, but....

A rail link with BC was a precondition of their joining Confederation. It was not built for the enjoyment of the beaver and moose and buffalo who were the main inhabitants of Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta at the time. Another thing. The rail road was necessary for the Canadian government to assert sovereignty across the West in the face of American pressure.

People followed the rails. No rails, fewer or no people. In fact, Western Canada was largely settled in accord with plans in central Canada to create it's own colonies. Guess you didn't know that did you buck shot? Well guess what? We don't particularly care to be treated as colonists out here anymore! You think Quebec has reasons to grumble. Live a life on these Prairies and then tell me about it!

One last thing. Ever heard of the Crow Rate? Yeah, that's the one. The one where Western Canada was subsidised for shipping grain to Eastern Canada. Did you know the flip side? Western Canada paid jacked up rates to ship any finished goods to Eastern Canada. That and the fact that if you grow wheat on the prairies you must sell your crop to the Canada Wheat Board. Try to truck it across the border at your own expense and the government of Canada will prosecute you. Meanwhile, farmers in Ontario and everywhere else can sell their produce any G*d-damned place they want, free of the CWB. Chew on them apples.

Nothing you said disputes the fact that the Western provinces were the main beneficiaries of the CPR. As you said, people followed the rails. There would be no farms or cattle ranches on the prairies had it not been for rail. There would have been no development of natural resources without rail (well, maybe oil and gas).

But don't even start me on the wheat farmers. When they have a bumper crop they complain that they can't sell it for a high price, but when crop prices crash, they demand hand outs from Ottawa.

And who created the CWB. Western grain farmers. They wanted a system that would provide protection when things were bad and to even out flucuating prices.

But, as always, they blame the Easterners.

Didn't the Crow rate get phased out years ago? And the reason it was there was to pay for the additional rail lines that were built years ago. IIRC, the farmers were complaining that there were not enough rail lines and so they built additional lines with the agreement that a toll would be applied on freight going through the Rockies. It was a user-pay system. And then the farmers complain about having to pay the tolls. They just wanted a free lunch.

Typical Western whines.

**techumseh** · April 7, 2002, 03:23

Originally posted by Asher
26M Americans aren't covered, and how many people live there? 270M or so? That's pretty good, actually.

Only someone with good coverage could say such a thing. And precious little compasion for his fellow human beings.

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Explain to me all this Quebec thing.

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