Middle East NEWS

[Ecthy]

Was that a news item, Siro?

The enws you post are full of discussion, therefoer it would be silly if we were not allowed to post comments about them. Either you remove that "no discussion" remark or you post objective news items that don't contain the word "lies" thousands of times in a 500 words article.

[Sirotnikov]

but what pictures we get to see is in the hands of news stations and the Israeli military

Actually, it's in the hands of Palestinian Camera Men who wish to aid their country by misreporting news.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Ecthelion
Was that a news item, Siro?

The enws you post are full of discussion, therefoer it would be silly if we were not allowed to post comments about them. Either you remove that "no discussion" remark or you post objective news items that don't contain the word "lies" thousands of times in a 500 words article.

It was a news item.

I don't want the entire thread to become a morality or who is right or wrong debate.

If you have some new report or new picture post it.

If you have contradicting data - post it.

If you wanna say "that's true, but in the long run......." there are 10 more threads for it.

[Ecthy]

How can you misreport news as a camera man in a crisis region? By misrecording events?

Your language is getting 1984-esque. BTW, our news say that NO journalists are allowed to get in there, not only Palestinians.

[Ecthy]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
But if it was on ååàìä it has to be true

This is a news item? We call it bullshit.

[Eli]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
But if it was on ååàìä it has to be true

They got the story from Karmela Menashe. Everyone got the story from her.

[Eli]

Yasser Abed Rabo : 30 Palestinians were killed in battles in Jenin

Damn. 10:1 ratio is a complete failure.

[MOBIUS]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
Shooting Error

Post date 03.28.02 | Issue date 04.01.02

OK, that looks very controversial indeed - get me a link to something other than this 'New Republic' site (i.e. something well known and respected) and I might give this some further consideration...

Good sentiments Andy, I was at the Pearl Harbour Memorial today and the futility of war was reminded big time!

War is only fought because both sides feel that they can ultimately win...

Personally my sympathy is with the Palestinians for historic and humanitarian reasons - I want to see them reach back to the 1948 borders, that is all I think they can realistically achieve although they are entitled to the original UN mandated lands...

If they still cause grief, then Israel can pound them into dust for all I care!

The whole bitter irony is that IMO if it weren't for the Israeli and US elections, things might have been sorted out - the Barak government just ran out of time!

Who knows, maybe with the Intifada ended - there might not have been a 911...?

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Ecthelion
How can you misreport news as a camera man in a crisis region? By misrecording events?

Yes.

By recording only part of what's hapenning.

Such as, recording Israelis shoot, but not recording the palestinians who shot first, and then recording children throwing stones, to make the viewer think it's the target.

Furthermore, read the article about Muhamad Al-durah, a 5 minute tape was cut to 50 seconds....

Even BBC admitted in one report that they are prevented from showing the Palestinians armed men, since they threatened to kill them if they do.

Your language is getting 1984-esque. BTW, our news say that NO journalists are allowed to get in there, not only Palestinians.

That's because we actually do not want to take responsability for journalists getting shot. We are having gun battles there. They are nosing in and could get shot.

And most news companies hire local palestinians as freelance camera men.

[Ecthy]

1. Since when are journalists not allowed to enter a region of crisis when they might be endangered. To be a foreign journalist in the middle east or so has always been a dangerous job, how is the Israeli government responsible for foreign journalists?

2. Do you make us see the whole picture or only ztell us a part of what is happening? Eh? Eli, you just mentioned 30 people were killed in Jenin. N-tv.de, a German news site that happens to be sisters with CNN, reports about that arab summit. Apparently, they claim that the IDF is responsible for massacres in Jenin, attacks houses of families (with families in them that is) etc. If YOU would post more then only a part of what's happening, then you'd not only post the claims of your people but also theirs. No I can't demand you to do that, but the Israeli government can't tell Palestinian journalists what to record and what not. And the fact you have 2 excuses for journalists not being let into the region is making me suspicious, especially since I had to pull them out of your nose...

To put it short: it's all lies [/Siro]

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by MOBIUS
OK, that looks very controversial indeed - get me a link to something other than this 'New Republic' site (i.e. something well known and respected) and I might give this some further consideration...

NEWS REPUBLIC didn't make the research - ARD did.

This was covered by Israeli networks too. I can try and find it on Jerusalem Post.

War is only fought because both sides feel that they can ultimately win...

Exactly.

Once the palestinians udnerstand that
a) terror won't lead them anywhere
b) there is no way they will cancel israel

they will be able to sign an agreement with israel.

Personally my sympathy is with the Palestinians for historic and humanitarian reasons - I want to see them reach back to the 1948 borders, that is all I think they can realistically achieve although they are entitled to the original UN mandated lands...

They themselves refused the UN partition, not to mention it wasn't binding, as chegitz reminded.

On 1947 they refused the partition and started war. Now they lost it and saying "We're sorry, let's pretend we didn't start a war and go back to 1948 borders"?

They chose to fight - they gotta live with the results.

If they still cause grief, then Israel can pound them into dust for all I care!

Please read my posts on a thread titled "Did Barak's offer..." by LOTM.

They are using the peace agreement as a stage to get a one palestinian state:

1) 1967 borders agreement
2) pushing for 1947 borders agreement
3) right of return - Israeli majority is palestinian
4) Israeli majority votes to cancel israel and create a unified palestine

and the anticipated
5) jews are being attacked and persecuted, just like in all arab states, and just like they did since 1929 to this day.

The whole bitter irony is that IMO if it weren't for the Israeli and US elections, things might have been sorted out - the Barak government just ran out of time!

Who caused it to ran out of time?

Arafat - the intifada.

Who knows, maybe with the Intifada ended - there might not have been a 911...?

911 was caused by ingoring terror.

Appeasement is always wrong. Hitler's germany should have taught you that.

[Ecthy]

I don't demand a reply to be quite honest. My 'discussion will' is limited, we can keep it on the other thread for all I care.

I declare the discussion in this thread terminated.

[Sirotnikov]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Ecthelion
1. Since when are journalists not allowed to enter a region of crisis when they might be endangered. To be a foreign journalist in the middle east or so has always been a dangerous job, how is the Israeli government responsible for foreign journalists?[/quoted]
When in combat, a soldier must assume that the big black thing pointed at him is an RPG, not a camera.

Furthermore, many journalists have been caught in the crossfire, but the palestinians always claim Israelis shot them, and that is what gets shown.

2. Do you make us see the whole picture or only ztell us a part of what is happening?

I try to show you more or less the whole picture, but I do not rely on palestinain statements when they can't be proven. They tend to lie.

They claimed we killed a priest when we didn't. They claim we attacked the church for dozens of times in the last 48 hours, when we didn't.

I've heard them say we take parts of their children and use them as spare parts.

What else?

Eh? Eli, you just mentioned 30 people were killed in Jenin. N-tv.de, a German news site that happens to be sisters with CNN, reports about that arab summit. Apparently, they claim that the IDF is responsible for massacres in Jenin, attacks houses of families (with families in them that is) etc.

We are going from home to home and seeking out armed men.

The fact that there are 30 dead doesn't mean it's a massacare.

Most of those 30 dead were armed gunmen. Some, innocent people who happenned to be caught in the fire or misidentified.

It happens in a war. I remind you America lost several soldiers from friendly fire. You can't say they "targeted" them.

If YOU would post more then only a part of what's happening, then you'd not only post the claims of your people but also theirs.

Their claims have no credibility. Not after they invent things.

No I can't demand you to do that, but the Israeli government can't tell Palestinian journalists what to record and what not.

Obviously.

But we don't want them there.

And the fact you have 2 excuses for journalists not being let into the region is making me suspicious, especially since I had to pull them out of your nose...

There was already discussions about it.

Read apolyton more often.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Ecthelion
I don't demand a reply to be quite honest. My 'discussion will' is limited, we can keep it on the other thread for all I care.

I declare the discussion in this thread terminated.

Thank you.


EDIT: Oooops

[Ecthy]

You have just broken your own rule that was re-enforced by me