Soviet Union's Possible Success

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by Stefu
O'yes, Stalin's excuse. Sure, Stalin only wanted to protect Leningrad. That's why he established a puppet goverment composed of Finnish communists who had moved to Russia. That's why Stalin planned occupation of Finland. And let's not forget the secret articles of Molotov-Ribbentrop plan. Stalin was just using the lame excuse of protecting Leningrad in an effort to make us a vassal state.

My sincere sympathies to your small and heroic nation. But the cruel reality of that epoch was that any small country not belonging to you would belong to your enemy and be used to stage an attack on you. Well, Finland actually never "belonged" to Nazi Germany. But wasn't its territory used for an attack on the Soviet Union?

Incidentally, Finns quickly retook the areas lost in Winter War and pushed farther than that in Continuation War. Leningrad still stood.

But at what cost! Do you know how many people died there?

Mannerheim refused to actively participate in siege of Leningrad or to cut traffic connections to Murmansk.

I am not aware of such details. But anyway, weren't the Nazis granted a free pass through your territory to attack the USSR?

[Serb]

Originally posted by Stefu


O'yes, Stalin's excuse. Sure, Stalin only wanted to protect Leningrad. That's why he established a puppet goverment composed of Finnish communists who had moved to Russia. That's why Stalin planned occupation of Finland. And let's not forget the secret articles of Molotov-Ribbentrop plan. Stalin was just using the lame excuse of protecting Leningrad in an effort to make us a vassal state.

Stefu,
(btw, you have nice Avatar, )
I don't wanted to defend Stalin. He was the total bastard, if not him, his purges in Red Army and his unwillingness to gave command of army to generals and his directives during WW2, then WW2 probably didn't happen or our country was not so much devastated.
But, I greatly disagreed about that he wanted to conquer Finland. All he wanted is to move frontier away from Leningrad. Before the the Winter war it was only 32 Km from Leningrad to frontier, after the war it was 270Km.

Would you deny that he offered to rent this land for 30 years or to exchange this border land for larger Soviet land, before he ordered to attack Finland?

He wanted to make peacefull exchange, your government refused. Again, of course you have right for this, but he believed that he must secure the Northern capital of SU by any means. And he used military force.
Did he want to conquer whole Finland?
No.
After Mannergheim line was brocken, it was not a very hard task.
(Please, take no offence I'm realise that you are very brave people who fough for your land, and I'm sure that you've fough for the last men standing, but do you think Finnland have chances to win war if it continued for year or two instead of 100 days. The SU had mach more resourses and manpower.)
The problem was that France was ready to send 150 000 troops of it's expedition force to attack North of SU. The Brits were ready to move their subs to Black sea. Further moving of red army deep in Finland would caused a declaration of war between GB, France and SU.
Stalin was a politician and he know this will happen, that's why he wanted to take those lands as quiet as possible. He ordered to use only troops of Leningrad's military district in this campaign, instead of launching a full scale war. Only when the first wave of red army was defeated, he start to realise his mistake and that Finnland is much harder task then he though and ordered to send reinforcements from other regions.
And again, I'm not defending Stalin, it's just my pov, based on book I've read about this historical period.

Incidentally, Finns quickly retook the areas lost in Winter War and pushed farther than that in Continuation War. Leningrad still stood. Fancy that. Mannerheim refused to actively participate in siege of Leningrad or to cut traffic connections to Murmansk.

If Nazi started their ofence from frontier which was before 1939, then Leningrad probably felt. Their start their ofence in 270 km
away from Leningrad instead of 32Km, this gave time to create the defence. And btw, do you know how Leningrad's citzens survive the blokade of Leningrad? The heroism of it defenders and all citizens saved this city. Those people prefer to die because of hunger, but not to surrender to enemy.And majority of them died because of hunger.

[Serb]

The Vagabond,
Opyat nam s toboi za rodinu zastupatsya prihoditsya.
Burgui borzeyut, odnoznachno.

Oh blin kak je oni lubiat nam kosti myt.

Dostaly v nature uzhe. Nu ni hera sebe spasitely chelovechestva!!! Otsigivalis za oceanom do 44. a teper wyesnyaetsya chto eto oni woinu vuigrali i chto krasnaya armiya na tret byla ukomplectovana amerikanskim oruzhiem.
V konec yanki zapizdelis.

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by Serb
Dostaly v nature uzhe. Nu ni hera sebe spasitely chelovechestva!!! Otsigivalis za oceanom do 44. a teper wyesnyaetsya chto eto oni woinu vuigrali i chto krasnaya armiya na tret byla ukomplectovana amerikanskim oruzhiem.
V konec yanki zapizdelis.

Da uzh, tut ih ubedit' prakticheski nevozmozhno...

[Serb]

Da ih voobshe hren v chem ubedish.
Gnut svouy liniyu ponimaesh, i vse tut.

[The Vagabond]

I suggest everyone here provide his/her ratings for the relative contribution of USSR/USA/Britain to the victory over the Nazis.

My ratings (quite generous to the West ):

USSR -- 70%
USA -- 15%
Britain -- 15%

[Heresson]

"What a silly argument. It was a single
country back then."

It means that the country suffered overall,
but Russians were in better situation than citizens under German control, which were mostly non-Russian.
Anyway, it was a federation, right?

"It's the official stat of 50s when communist
were in charge. Stalin's stats has even a
fewer nombers because he was
responsible for huge casulties. Some later
stat (after collapse of SU) saying it was 50
millions of victims. "

There were theories about 5mln people in Auschwitz and no-one takes it serious now.

"So, you want to defend Hitler?
I guess not.You being Polish and I'm being
Russian both should be dead in accordance with Hitler's plans. "

Oj, I agree with You!


"You think Ukraine was not part of SU?
And look at map again, everything from
Moscow to Black Sea was conquered by
Hitler. It was the most populated and the
most industrialized part of the SU. Today
Siberia and city where I live for example, is
populated and industrialized only because
of a factories and people were evacuated
ere during WW2.nazi left our country laid in
ruins, the most terrible and fierce battles of
WW2 happen on our land. In Stalingrad big
city (by that times) remained less then 10 undestroyed houses.

Don't treat Russia as a sinonime for SU.
And of course, Russians suffered a lot.
But still, most of Russian Soviet Republic
wasn't under occupation, and as You noticed, the war even helped it - it industrialised it. I mean that your fate was better than the fate of other Slavic nations,
esp. Polish. But You are right, generally there's no reason for us to argue about that. So I'm ending this part.

[Serb]

Originally posted by The Vagabond
I suggest everyone here provide his/her ratings for the relative contribution of USSR/USA/Britain to the victory over the Nazis.

My ratings (quite generous to the West ):

USSR -- 70%
USA -- 15%
Britain -- 15%

Paren ty chto delaesh? nas zhe shas jivem s`ediat.
Ih zhe v shkole uchili chto yanki super nation, itd. a ty im vsego 15 procentov otvalil.
Oni je shaz rvat i metat budut, nachnut orat chto ruskie neblagodarnyie urody i chto voobshe eto oni (yanki) vseh pobedili, vkluchaya tataro-mongolov

[The Vagabond]

Serb:

[Heresson]

Nie gawariajcie po rusku, bo was dobrze nie rozumiem!

[Ecthy]

Stop speaking ausländisch, comrades

[Serb]

Originally posted by Heresson
Nie gawariajcie po rusku, bo was dobrze nie rozumiem!

Eto horosho.
Consider it some kind of Russian conspiracy.

Ia tozhe po Polski ne rozumeyu. hotya nashi yaziki i pohozhie.

[Ecthy]

Soyuz nerushimy... erm... how did that go

[Serb]

Originally posted by Ecthelion
Stop speaking ausländisch, comrades

Ja, naturlih.

I'm sure I've typed it unproperly.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Ecthelion
Soyuz nerushimy... erm... how did that go

Soyuz nerushimy respublik svobodnih
Splotila naveki velikaya Rus
Da zdrastvuet sozdanyi voley narodov
Veliki moguchi Sovetskii Souz!

Slavsya otechestvo nashe svobodnoye
Druzhby narodov nadejnyi oplot,
Partiya Lenina- sila narodnaya
Nas k torjestvu communisma vedet!

And so on.


This thread is become a real spam festival.