What is wrong with the concept of "race"?

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by C0ckney
If the company in question where to hire the best person for the next job that came up regardless of race or gender then eventually you should see a fair representation of blacks etc. in the company. It would take longer but it would be through a fair and equitable system which is what we all want after all.

The inequality is there in the first place because of racial prejudices. Just look at some of the posters on this list. There are minority who are blatently racist, but more damaging are the greater number of people who still believe that some races are somewhat inferior.

If nothing is done then the situation will never change.

The racist hiring manager will always claim he made the hiring decision based on merit, but what is really happening is these some managers look at a black person (or whatever racial background)and think "he's not quite as good as the white guys cause black (or whatever racial background)."

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying all managers are like this, but in this day and age, if a company has significant racial or gender inequality then you have to wonder about the racial attitudes of the managers.

Under your system, we will have discrimination against groups for decades if not centuries, if ever. AA is a racially based system, but we will reach equality faster.

Let's also not forget that under your system, the racist manager never hires a black person. Under AA, the manager is only required to some blacks for some jobs. There are still many jobs available for whites so whites really don't suffer.

The choice is long-term complete discrimination without a guarantee of equality or short-term, limited discrimination in a quick step to equality.

[Caligastia]

Just as in the animal and plant kingdoms where there are superior and inferior strains of any given species, there are superior and inferior strains within humanity (not confined to any particular race).

Races are groups of people who are obviously more closely related (genetically) to each other than to those outside their racial group. Because of this there are traits which can be generally assigned to different racial groups. Not everyone within the groups will have these traits, but the majority will have them in varying degrees.

Individuals cannot be judged according to their race, but racial groups that have varying degrees of success in building a civilization can be said to have a superior or inferior civilization.

[C0ckney]

Originally posted by Tingkai




The inequality is there in the first place because of racial prejudices. Just look at some of the posters on this list. There are minority who are blatently racist, but more damaging are the greater number of people who still believe that some races are somewhat inferior.

I'm not aware of any racists on this board 'blatent' or otherwise, maybe you could point them out?

I agree that the current situation is largely to do with racial prejudice and lack of opportunity for certain sections of society. But I fail to see how swapping inequality from one group to another solves anything.

Equality of opportunity and a level playing field sound fair enough to me.

If nothing is done then the situation will never change.

How is creating a level playing field doing nothing?

The racist hiring manager will always claim he made the hiring decision based on merit, but what is really happening is these some managers look at a black person (or whatever racial background)and think "he's not quite as good as the white guys cause black (or whatever racial background)."

A racist hiring manager could be any colour.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying all managers are like this, but in this day and age, if a company has significant racial or gender inequality then you have to wonder about the racial attitudes of the managers.

I think to assume that managers are racist is a bit much, I'm sure there are racist managers, of all colours, but I think that they are few in number.

Under your system, we will have discrimination against groups for decades if not centuries, if ever. AA is a racially based system, but we will reach equality faster.

Are you saying that with a level playing blacks couldn't succeed, and they need a leg up to compete? Personally I feel confident that with a level playing black people would be able to achieve as much as whites.

Let's also not forget that under your system, the racist manager never hires a black person. Under AA, the manager is only required to some blacks for some jobs. There are still many jobs available for whites so whites really don't suffer.

All racists managers are white?

That is utter bollocks and you know it. How can you justify racial discrimination against whites?

Using that logic you could argue that black people don't suffer from discrimination.

The choice is long-term complete discrimination without a guarantee of equality or short-term, limited discrimination in a quick step to equality.

("Gonna do thing my way
It's my way,
My way or the highway!")

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
For example, suppose you have a particular speicies of frog. Over time, it expands around a large lake. Over time, subtle variations show up between frogs on one side of the lake versus frogs on the other side. They are still the same species, however; the two types of frogs won't mate. They're genetically compatable, they just won't mate. These frogs have divided into races.

I have never, ever, seen that. If you have some documented instances please let me know.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Tingkai
The inequality is there in the first place because of racial prejudices. Just look at some of the posters on this list. There are minority who are blatently racist, but more damaging are the greater number of people who still believe that some races are somewhat inferior.

I agree something must be done, but AA is not it. I do not see granting special previleges to a group of minorities is going to solve this problem.

What you are saying is two wrongs do make a right, which seems implausible.

[C0ckney]

Holy crap UR and I agree on something, better call the papers

[MrFun]

People distort the legitimacy of affirmative action by calling it reverse discrimination, when it really is not reverse discrimination.

Affirmative action is about encouraging a proactive approach towards hiring more minority applicants who qualify for the positions they apply for.

[Tingkai]

The playing field is not level. It is tilted in favour of white men. To level it out, the benefits for white men go down, and the benefits for non-whites go up. You can't simply call an unlevel field level.

[C0ckney]

Originally posted by MrFun
People distort the legitimacy of affirmative action by calling it reverse discrimination, when it really is not reverse discrimination.

Affirmative action is about encouraging a proactive approach towards hiring more minority applicants who qualify for the positions they apply for.

So in other words give preferential treatment to blacks and other minorities at the expense of white people. Sounds a lot like discrimination to me...

Tingkai, with current anti-discrimination laws how is playing field not level?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Boddington's


And by hiring a less well-equipped (white) candidate merely on the grounds of race, the company are cutting off their nose to spite their face.

Let them, I say.

Yes, but the truth is, the world has goten along very well with mediochre people doing their jobs. Most jobs do not require the best person for the spot, only someone to do the job. Thus, discriminationating out qualified Black people for less qualified white folks doesn't really hurt the company.

[Jaguar]

Originally posted by Tingkai


I'm completely sick of the whiners complaining about AA. They basically claim they want racial equality, but when any attempt is made to create this equality, the whiners start screaming their heads off like DarkCloud.

Let's face it. They don't want racial equality. They just want to keep things the same and that means a world where all the jobs go to white men.

Most companies don't even really have Affirmative Action. Managers just use it as an excuse to avoid telling slackers that they didn't get the job because they're incompetent.

AA has become a convenient crutch for slackers. They don't work hard and when they don't get a job, they blame it on AA.

Go fuck yourself.

[chequita guevara]

But he's right.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior

Go fuck yourself.

This is your counter-argument?

This is how you show off your intelligence??

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by C0ckney
Tingkai, with current anti-discrimination laws how is playing field not level?

Because hiring people is an extremely subjective decision so it is almost impossible to prove that racism affected a particular decision (unless the hiring manager is an idiot and voices his/her racist opinion). One person's life experience cannot be objectively measured against another person's life experience.

What we can do is look at the aggregate. If a company employs only white people (or for that matter, only black people) then we can say there is problem that needs to be corrected and the only way to correct the problem is to give preference to black (or white) candidates.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior

Go fuck yourself.

So I take it you consider yourself one of those slackers and whiners.